> There are some other strange evolutionary dead ends we find ourselves tied to because everything has to bow to the gods of reliability in aviation Ironically floppies are utterly unreliable and will become corrupted if you look at them the wrong way. I understand that if you are after reliability you have incentives not to change, but it sounds weird to me that you wouldn't move away from that terrible format as so…
The floppy disk just won’t die
41–50 of 180 posts
Re: The floppy disk just won’t die
#42One of the things I wonder about in retrospect is why floppy drives remained at a static level of ability for the most part. I mean I know there were the LS120 and such things, but why wasn't there a manufacturer just pushing the tech a bit further? Like why not have a drive made with additional precision and capable of squeezing 3 MB into a floppy? Is there something about the actual media that put a hard limit on h…
From memory, the home computer market moved quite quickly from cassettes to floppy disks (mid 80s). Everybody then used floppy disks either as primary storage or as a way to install software to hard disks (late 80s), increasingly so until we got CD-ROMs. They became the primary software distribution media (early 90s). That was 650 MB vs 1.44, game over.
We had CD burners in every computer. Floppy disks were too unreliable compared to CDs and files were already too large. We had external hard disks and pen drives in the late 90s when USB was released. That was the end of floppy disks for backups.
So, to answer your question, no time to do it. Every manufacturer was probably working on the next big technology and not on incrementally perfecting the floppy disk.
Re: The floppy disk just won’t die
#43I think of the situation with compact cassettes (audio) where you can get a refurbished deck from the 1990s for $300 or so on ebay that is better than any deck I ever owned. They are making new decks but since 2005 or so they all use the “tanashin mechanism” which is cheap and highly reliable (minimal moving parts!) but sounds awful. You can make the best recordings with Type 4 “metal” tapes but these have not been m…
Sounds awful in what way? Mechanically? Presumably if it sounded bad reproducing tapes you'd just use better electronics?
The tape speed should be precisely calibrated and, as much as possible, unvarying, instead it wobbles all over the place and is just roughly dialed in. On average the mech might say run 2% fast, but then also vary moment by moment by 1%.
The right way to enable recording is to add an electromagnet, which can randomise the magnetic alignment of the particles on the tape the tape just before it is rewritten, but that costs money so the cheap option is a permanent magnet, moved near the tape when needed, this aligns everything, so it kinda works but it's much noisier (in terms of the recording)
Re: The floppy disk just won’t die
#44There is nothing in the modern hardware ecosystem quite as satisfying as the feeling and sound of a 3.5 inch floppy ka-chunking into a floppy drive. Sure, everything being silent magic these days is nice, but I never felt so in touch with a computer as I did as a child dragging files off a floppy drive and hearing the drive start to buzz and hum. It was like being able to touch the data itself.
Re: The floppy disk just won’t die
#45I think of the situation with compact cassettes (audio) where you can get a refurbished deck from the 1990s for $300 or so on ebay that is better than any deck I ever owned. They are making new decks but since 2005 or so they all use the “tanashin mechanism” which is cheap and highly reliable (minimal moving parts!) but sounds awful. You can make the best recordings with Type 4 “metal” tapes but these have not been m…
Sounds awful in what way? Mechanically? Presumably if it sounded bad reproducing tapes you'd just use better electronics?
The tape head is essentially a stethoscope in direct physical contact whith every other part in the machine, and even the table it's sitting on and your house and the world.
Every part of it from the quality of the bearings or bushings, or lack of either just plastic parts rubbing directly on metal pins, the motor, gears, all of it is present in the physical motion of the tape, which is directly added to the signal you get out of the head.
It's like putting your ear on any machine, you can hear every single part inside the machine.
It can't be fixed by electronics In the same way that you can't unscramble an egg.
You can only fake improving it with filters that really just modify the signal even more. It may sound a "better" if one of the worst components is a big simple crude regular motor pulse or ac hum, and a filter can somewhat match that well enough to make it less noticeable, but the resulting output is even further deviated from the original signal.
Digital does not have this problem because a bit is a bit. A bit that barely registered and a bit that came from a strong signal are both the same bit once read, and even some amount of incorrect bits are repaired by math and redundant data.
And digital doesn't care how slow or fast the bits come. Any deviations from imaginary perfect media speed aren't turned into audio signal because the data is not being turned from physical aspects of the media directly into sound like a stethoscope, it's just a block of data that could arrive at any speed, and the audio is fabricated later by interpreting the data. The audio there is determined by the quality of the dac.
Re: The floppy disk just won’t die
#46One of the things I wonder about in retrospect is why floppy drives remained at a static level of ability for the most part. I mean I know there were the LS120 and such things, but why wasn't there a manufacturer just pushing the tech a bit further? Like why not have a drive made with additional precision and capable of squeezing 3 MB into a floppy? Is there something about the actual media that put a hard limit on h…
There were 2.88" floppy disks, not mainstream. From memory, the home computer market moved quite quickly from cassettes to floppy disks (mid 80s). Everybody then used floppy disks either as primary storage or as a way to install software to hard disks (late 80s), increasingly so until we got CD-ROMs. They became the primary software distribution media (early 90s). That was 650 MB vs 1.44, game over. We had CD burners…
Re: The floppy disk just won’t die
#47One of the things I wonder about in retrospect is why floppy drives remained at a static level of ability for the most part. I mean I know there were the LS120 and such things, but why wasn't there a manufacturer just pushing the tech a bit further? Like why not have a drive made with additional precision and capable of squeezing 3 MB into a floppy? Is there something about the actual media that put a hard limit on h…
There were 2.88" floppy disks, not mainstream. From memory, the home computer market moved quite quickly from cassettes to floppy disks (mid 80s). Everybody then used floppy disks either as primary storage or as a way to install software to hard disks (late 80s), increasingly so until we got CD-ROMs. They became the primary software distribution media (early 90s). That was 650 MB vs 1.44, game over. We had CD burners…
Like I do recall you could get 800 and even 900MB CDs and write past the normal end on standard CDs, because people figured that you can squeeze things a bit tighter and cut the corners a bit more here and there, and with the right drives that worked.
I'm wondering why they didn't do that with floppy drives. It was definitely a thing on the software side with special formatting programs, but I don't recall it being a thing on the hardware side. Not in the sense of having new official upgrades like 2.88 MB, but drives advertising that they were made 20% better than the official spec and could squeeze more into each standard floppy.
Re: The floppy disk just won’t die
#48One of the things I wonder about in retrospect is why floppy drives remained at a static level of ability for the most part. I mean I know there were the LS120 and such things, but why wasn't there a manufacturer just pushing the tech a bit further? Like why not have a drive made with additional precision and capable of squeezing 3 MB into a floppy? Is there something about the actual media that put a hard limit on h…
Re: The floppy disk just won’t die
#49There is nothing in the modern hardware ecosystem quite as satisfying as the feeling and sound of a 3.5 inch floppy ka-chunking into a floppy drive. Sure, everything being silent magic these days is nice, but I never felt so in touch with a computer as I did as a child dragging files off a floppy drive and hearing the drive start to buzz and hum. It was like being able to touch the data itself.
Similarly, hard drive seeking noise used to feel something like the heartbeat of the computer. When it went silent and all you heard was fans you knew something was up and a force reboot was likely in your near future. I don't really miss it all that much though, mainly because HD noise could range anywhere from barely audible clicks and whirrs all the way up to an angry animal of some sort, with most drives leaning…
Re: The floppy disk just won’t die
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's at least one music genre (vaporwave) that has a lot of new releases on tape, and often tapes are the only physical format released. Actually come of think of it, there's some releases on floppy disk as well!
If they are releasing on floppy, then the quality can't be up to much - that's going to be a pretty low bitrate MP3 to fit in that space!