Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

#281

Post by scarface74 » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 1:48 AM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #278

scarface74 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, do you see Apple and Microsoft arguing with each other like they did in the mid 90s?

How many of your high school classmates died before graduation? Your analogy is flawed. Microsoft is a corporation, not a person.

That just means it’s even sillier to compare what they did in 2000 to 2023. How many people do you still think work there now as then? Do you think MS is still using the same strategy in 2023 as they did in 2000 even though the landscape has changed?

Any long lived corporation is more like the ship of Theseus. They are the same in name only.

Re: Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

#282

Post by midoridensha » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 2:01 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #258

hinkley wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tree remembers what the axe soon forgets. If you’re in a bar tomorrow and someone is picking a fight with you, and they say something that makes you realize that this person is someone you tormented, gloated over and whose life you tried to destroy. Do you think they’re not entitled to their rage? Do you think you should get a pass in life for wrecking other people’s childhoods without even an apology? Or do you…

Yes, because as a mature adult , I don’t still hold grudges about something that happened over 25 years ago. Are you the type of person that still refuses to use Google services because they cancelled Google Reader over a decade ago? And just like I had to learn to adapt and change my behavior after failure, so did MS when it lost out in mobile and was sued.

Comparing the outright malicious, evil, anticompetitive actions of Microsoft at their zenith to Google simply canceling services stupidly and prematurely makes me wonder how Hanlon's Razor applies to you.

Re: Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

#283

Post by yeko » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 2:24 AM UTC

WirelessGigabit wrote: post #62

It's 2023. Why are we still doing user agent detection? We're supposed to do feature detection. userAgent is deprecated. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Navigator/u...

Sometimes it is not possible due to bugs in browsers.

For example, how do you know if calling a API will crash the browser?

https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=118336...

Re: Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

#284

Post by ilrwbwrkhv » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 2:37 AM UTC

dijit wrote: post #231

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #92

Microsoft has some of the worst developers in big tech. I worked with two principal engineers from Microsoft and I swore I would never work with anyone from Microsoft again.

I dislike microsoft irrationally, but I would find it hard to paint with such a broad brush. Typescript & vscode are products microsoft produced and are beloved. you can also find things in Windows that are just “better” than what we had in Linux land until very recently, namely IOCompletion Ports and the iSCSI stuff.

Typescript as a language is fine but as an implementation is horribly slow. Same with vs code.

Re: Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

#285

Post by mulmen » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 2:50 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #281

mulmen wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of your high school classmates died before graduation? Your analogy is flawed. Microsoft is a corporation, not a person.

That just means it’s even sillier to compare what they did in 2000 to 2023. How many people do you still think work there now as then? Do you think MS is still using the same strategy in 2023 as they did in 2000 even though the landscape has changed? Any long lived corporation is more like the ship of Theseus. They are the same in name only.

I think culture outlasts people and that they are likely to continue their historical recruiting standards and practices. As I said in another comment, I get older but Microsoft stays the same age. Corporations don’t mature.

Re: Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

#286

Post by justinclift » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 2:52 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #258

hinkley wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tree remembers what the axe soon forgets. If you’re in a bar tomorrow and someone is picking a fight with you, and they say something that makes you realize that this person is someone you tormented, gloated over and whose life you tried to destroy. Do you think they’re not entitled to their rage? Do you think you should get a pass in life for wrecking other people’s childhoods without even an apology? Or do you…

Yes, because as a mature adult , I don’t still hold grudges about something that happened over 25 years ago. Are you the type of person that still refuses to use Google services because they cancelled Google Reader over a decade ago? And just like I had to learn to adapt and change my behavior after failure, so did MS when it lost out in mobile and was sued.

Just for clarity, do you currently or have you previously worked for any of the Big Tech / FAANG firms? :)

Re: Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

#287

Post by toastal » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 3:15 AM UTC

dcow wrote: post #127

KennyBlanken wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil's advocate: I don't think blocking bleeding-edge browsers is necessarily "stupidity." If you're smart enough to understand all the caveats of running a bleeding edge software program, you're smart enough to change your user agent string. If you're not, you have no business running nightly, and you're probably going to generate a lot of "yOuR sITE is BRokEN!" support emails / forum posts / bug reports for other…

“The site isn't working on FF nightly or Chrome Canary” is a perfectly valid bug report. It’s up to the dev if they want to investigate and fix or if they want to wait for more data/reports to come it. You think I’m going to source dive your tens of thousands of lines of shitty hacked up react just because I’m a nightly user? Fuck no. Do your job clown.

Yup. A Fx Nightly user might be reporting a new, valid bug about a spec change or new policy around the anti-fingerprinting tech which would give the site/app owner time to react before this change makes its way to stable. Will there be some legit browser bugs, probably? Will folks running unstable versions be more likely to diagnose who is at fault and do a bug report, also probably.

Same argument goes for games on Linux. There was an interview a couple years back where a team noticed more reports from Linux users, and when they looked into it, the reports had logs, steps to reproduce, system info and it help squash bugs on all platforms.

Re: Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

#288

Post by toastal » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 3:22 AM UTC

tag2103 wrote: post #220

We are a smaller company, only 10 users. We are in the process of fully ditching Microsoft for a full linux stack using Samba for AD (for the leprosy known as Quickbooks alone). I've blocked MS at the pihole and was expecting people to bring torches and pitchforks. The general consensus was we should have done this years ago and how did you make my computer so much faster. To hell with Microsoft and their tripe.

PiHoling Microsoft GitHub too?

Re: Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

#289

Post by toastal » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 3:28 AM UTC

worksonmine wrote: post #103

This is not just nightly, even Firefox-esr on Debian didn't support screen-sharing at least a few months ago. Had issues during client meetings last year and since then I always propose google meet instead if I see a teams link in the invitation, explaining why. It's not technical it's lazy devs. The button is disabled claiming my browser doesn't support it. Bullshit.

Jitsi works for screensharing on X11 + Fx for me. It's a worthy alternative if you want to escape not unjust Microsoft but Google as well.

Re: Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

#290

Post by plorg » Mon, Mar 06, 2023, 4:39 AM UTC

einpoklum wrote: post #184

plorg wrote: post #56

My organization (which uses Teams) forcibly migrated all Firefox users to Edge a couple of weeks ago and uninstalled FF. They were citing incompatibility with some software and I assumed that meant the new ERP system being adopted by one of the larger departments.

Which organization? At least they can get derided publicly for doing this...

I work for a small manufacturing company. I'm not going to blow up my company or my job over a decision I have next to no insight into that affects my job in such a small way.