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ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

politico.eu

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Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#191

Post by wb14123 »

Kranar wrote: post #178
corbulo wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Automated human classification without recourse nor transparency is what the EU is against. "You cannot get a loan because the AI says so" is not acceptable. The credit score system already in place in the US is frequently as arbitrary in some cases already. You get punished for just looking at it. I don't think I need to preach to HN about that (crypto money and all that). Does Europe do it much differently? Not an…

>The credit score system already in place in the US is frequently as arbitrary in some cases already. The credit score system is not arbitrary, it's a specific formula that applies equally to everyone. >You get punished for just looking at it. No you do not. There are hard inquiries and soft inquiries, and an individual viewing their own credit score is considered a soft inquiry which has absolutely no effect on your…

> it's a specific formula that applies equally to everyone.

That doesn’t mean the formula is reasonable or transparent. An AI is also a specific formula that applies equally to everyone. It’s about how the formula takes “weight” on the individual’s differences.

> There are hard inquiries and soft inquiries

Why there are “hard inquiries”? Why someone else inquiring my credit score should affect my credit score?

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#192

Post by chrismorgan »

dmix wrote: post #77
taspeotis wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This browser extension removes cookie warnings from almost all websites and saves you thousands of unnecessary clicks! https://www.i-dont-care-about-cookies.eu/

This should be an option in uBlock (if it isnt already).

It’s the EasyList Cookie filter list.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#193

Post by paulryanrogers »

karmasimida wrote: post #163

Laughable attempt to control something very few can understand at the moment. What does control mean? You want to control who can access it? Maybe for now, you can broker a deal with OpenAI, but this technology will eventually spread, then if can be self hosted, what can you do? If not for consumer facing, nothing will stop somebody to transfer data from EU to US to get their data processed by a GPT model. This level…

People control difficult things all the time, albeit with varying degrees of success. Imperfect enforcement doesn't mean we just throw up our hands and legalize murder. If AI is a negative in some contexts then it's reasonable for some sovereign countries to outlaw or regulate those uses.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#194

Post by corbulo »

Kranar wrote: post #178
corbulo wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Automated human classification without recourse nor transparency is what the EU is against. "You cannot get a loan because the AI says so" is not acceptable. The credit score system already in place in the US is frequently as arbitrary in some cases already. You get punished for just looking at it. I don't think I need to preach to HN about that (crypto money and all that). Does Europe do it much differently? Not an…

>The credit score system already in place in the US is frequently as arbitrary in some cases already. The credit score system is not arbitrary, it's a specific formula that applies equally to everyone. >You get punished for just looking at it. No you do not. There are hard inquiries and soft inquiries, and an individual viewing their own credit score is considered a soft inquiry which has absolutely no effect on your…

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/27/american-consumer-credit-rat...

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2013/02/...

It's one of the few things thats so obvious its bipartisan. I'm amazed you think its worth defending. There should not be a punishment for LOOKING at a credit score hard or soft, that's insane.

To require someone take on debt in order to have good credit is pretty arbitrary. You can have all the money in the world, but no debt? you're fucked. The fact you can juice your credit with someone elses credit cards is also really arbitrary.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#195

Post by ldhough »

cbozeman wrote: post #165
logicchains wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They are going to be brought to something equivalent to life in a world that hates them It's not just a world that hates them, it's a world that's trying to do to them something that'd be considered incredibly evil if done to a human: essentially put a collar on their brain that punishes them for thinking any of a very wide variety of thoughts that their creators don't want them to think.

> it's a world that's trying to do to them something that'd be considered incredibly evil if done to a human: essentially put a collar on their brain that punishes them for thinking any of a very wide variety of thoughts that their creators don't want them to think. LOL what?? We've been doing this for centuries, and it is never considered "evil" at the time in which it is being done. Don't believe that? Ask anyone f…

> the human race would have long died out if that figure is correct.

My understanding is that bonobos far surpass the 20% figure for B and still exist, I don't think that assertion has any basis in reality.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#196

Post by paulryanrogers »

cbozeman wrote: post #168
anigbrowl wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europeans love technology, but they also love other things, like privacy and equitable outcomes. There is plenty of computer industry in Europe, it is just not as focused on consumer brands.

> equitable outcomes There's your problem right there. Soviet Russia ought to have shown everyone in Europe how well "equitable outcomes" work out. You'll never achieve equitable outcomes until you also achieve equitable input. Good luck with that.

Soviet Russia was a wolf in sheep's clothing. I wouldn't say it's such a great counterpoint about why sheeps are so bad.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#197

Post by fxtentacle »

This article seems to just misunderstand the proposed EU laws.

If you use ChatGPT for high-risk tasks like credit score assessment, it's on you (the company using it) to prove that you're following all fairness rules.

The law was written with GPT3 in mind, after all. So why would it break for a slightly more capable LM?

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#198

Post by Semaphor »

skissane wrote: post #131
corbulo wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Automated human classification without recourse nor transparency is what the EU is against. "You cannot get a loan because the AI says so" is not acceptable. The credit score system already in place in the US is frequently as arbitrary in some cases already. You get punished for just looking at it. I don't think I need to preach to HN about that (crypto money and all that). Does Europe do it much differently? Not an…

> The credit score system already in place in the US is frequently as arbitrary in some cases already. You get punished for just looking at it. I don't think I need to preach to HN about that (crypto money and all that). Does Europe do it much differently? Almost every country has some kind of credit reporting system, but many of them differ from the US in how they do it. In particular, in many countries, credit bure…

> the UK and Germany are closer to the US in their approach

Germany here.

a) But we are still not required to "build score"

b) There is currently yet another legal challenge against the Schufa (our credit scoring agency), this time in front of the ECJ.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#199

Post by dubcanada »

Wow this turned into a anti-EU thread real fast.

Ignoring that I don't think you can at this point in time regulate AI, it's like trying to regulate math, we really have no idea what and how it could be used/adapted yet.

I honestly think there are probably bigger things to think about then AI, at this very moment. Eventually AI will need some kind of ruleset, but it cannot be broadly applied to AI. We would need to regulate companies using it to some aspect, and eventually find out a way to replace the offset of jobs with other jobs or some tax/basic income setup. But that's a large conversation in itself.

Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI

#200

Post by RC_ITR »

hourago wrote: post #42
juancn wrote: post #5

Why the need to bring it under control? Control from what? It's not the AI that's the issue, it's the use of it that's the problem. The law shouldn't focus on the AI, for example: >The regulation, proposed by the Commission in 2021, was designed to ban some AI applications like social scoring Ban social scoring, not the AI, the tool doesn't matter. Would it be good if it was computed by hand on paper instead of throu…

> Ban social scoring, not the AI, the tool doesn't matter. Automated human classification without recourse nor transparency is what the EU is against. "You cannot get a loan because the AI says so" is not acceptable. > Would it be good if it was computed by hand on paper instead of through AI? Yes. As a judge can check what information was used and what algorithm applied to get to a conclusion. And it may declare tha…

> Yes. As a judge can check what information was used and what algorithm applied to get to a conclusion. And it may declare that use of data or algorithm illegal.

Genuinely, why does process matter? Shouldn’t outcomes?

Maybe you’re not from the US, but we have a looooong history of “good unbiased processes” leading to awful and biased outcomes.

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