Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't this the same argument as "ban murder, not guns"? Murder is illegal, yes, but fatalities are lower in places with gun control than places without.
Seems more like banning cars than guns. Cars can be used pretty effectively for murder but the vast majority of use cases are not killing things.
ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI
81–90 of 393 posts
Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
You should look up Switzerland's gun laws and intentional homicide rate if you think so. That is a far more complex issue which is far deeper than such a simple correlation.
Switzerland is top of Europe in gun homicide rates with about 5x the EU average. You might not be making an example in support of an argument you think you're making ;P
Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Control may be the wrong thing here. Every technology, at some point, will inevitably bring questions of legal liability and culpability, and AI has a large tendency to do so because of how applicable it is. It’s not the worst idea to try and get ahead of the problem by defining a legal framework. Examples of how a free-for-all has resulted in legal questions; * police and the judiciary in the US have come under fire…
I don't get it. For the first example, the system is only a tool used and the responsibility is still with whoever does the sentencing/traffic stops etc. In the second case, how is this different from e.g. Kelley Blue Book for car prices?
>I don't get it. For the first example, the system is only a tool used and the responsibility is still with whoever does the sentencing/traffic stops etc.
Sometimes though the rules of society must take into account the actual reality of humanity, with all our foibles, and work anyway. Pointing the finger at "individual responsibility" doesn't always cut it. Certain tools simply push too far to the edge of well known human mental failure points. If the overall system for activities involving serious life/safety/security/liberty human failure modes tends to push towards these failure modes and lean too heavily on an expectation of human perfection, and then imperfect humans fail resulting in loss, it can be very worth considering whether the problem is human imperfection or if it's just a bad system. The incredible safety record of the modern airline industry for example comes heavily from treating accidents as system failures by default. Outside of a few edge cases that are constantly working to get shrunk, no accident should ever result from just a single problem including human problems, from a single person getting tired or making a mistake. There are checklists and formalized procedures. There are layers and layers of redundancy, of everyone checking each other. We don't just take incredibly complex tools like aircraft and then if one crashes say "well the pilots didn't have the right stuff!"
Or for a current AI-related ongoing change, consider self-driving technology. There have been two overall broad approaches, one "working its way up" from driver-assist tech, and the other aiming to start at full self-driving immediately even if that means tight geographic restrictions and vehicle tech requirements. In the first, the idea is that "the driver is still always in charge" and "it's only a tool" until full self driving is achieved. And perhaps in principle either could get there in the end without wildly different issues.
But in practice, that's not how humans work at scale. For many people if you give them something that works 99.5% of the time and then fails catastrophically 0.5% of the time and tell them that they need to constantly act as if the tool wasn't there and might not be there at any instant, well, they just won't do that consistently. They'll come to depend on it. Attention will wander, distractions will set in, and they won't maintain mental state the same as if they were driving themselves. If there is some warning they may need to take over sure they'll be able to execute a state change and do so, but if it's a matter of seconds, they won't. Humans are creatures of shortcuts and habits, that's just how it is. So maybe L3/L4 driver assist just isn't ok, and saying that it's "only a tool" doesn't cut it.
>In the second case, how is this different from e.g. Kelley Blue Book for car prices?
The issue is if it's all being done automatically, not merely as a recommendation, and at scale.
In general an area the law has yet to really effectively grapple with is that of emergent effects, where individually something would be fine, but with enough scale has an effect that mimics something we already aren't ok with. Here, the effect of fully automated algorithmic pricing of a sufficiently high percentage of the market of nominally independent actors could create the effect of formal collusion to change market prices.
Another example would be AI, networking and storage with sufficient cameras. Putting a security camera out on your property is perfectly legal. So is many cameras. So is saving video, and humans looking at it. There is no "reasonable expectation of privacy" in public per se. Individually there'd be no issue. But if there are a sufficient number, networked, with sufficient storage/memory/computer and AI thrown at it, the effect suddenly changes and becomes as if someone was being persistently trailed/tracked the same as if a GPS tracker had been stuck on them or the like. And worse it's for everyone simultaneously. The sum is greater then the individual parts. Such a system could effectively not just trace everyone's movement but also interactions and start to build up their social network graphs and no doubt all sorts of other personal information.
How to grapple with things that are fine and even incredibly helpful by themselves but become dangerous at scale may be one of the great challenges of this century.
Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
You should look up Switzerland's gun laws and intentional homicide rate if you think so. That is a far more complex issue which is far deeper than such a simple correlation.
For the curious, in Switzerland, you don't keep ammo at home, there's proper registration of weapons with proper background checks, and it's treated more as a means of national defense, so having lots of guns is going to get you odd looks from people. Guns aren't seen as something for personal defense: that's the job of the police. In other words, Switzerland has a much healthier attitude towards gun ownership and us…
Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI
#85Good. Thanks to the EU I have to click "cookie question" every where I go. Thanks guys for wasting the limited time I have in life.
Seriously one of the stupidest regulations I've ever seen. It would have been nice if they would have at least had the forethought to enforce regulation on a do not track header.
Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't this the same argument as "ban murder, not guns"? Murder is illegal, yes, but fatalities are lower in places with gun control than places without.
In this case it's the opposite: they are trying to ban guns while not making murder a crime.
Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI
#87Good. Thanks to the EU I have to click "cookie question" every where I go. Thanks guys for wasting the limited time I have in life.
> This browser extension removes cookie warnings from almost all websites and saves you thousands of unnecessary clicks! https://www.i-dont-care-about-cookies.eu/
> In most cases, it just blocks or hides cookie related pop-ups. When it's needed for the website to work properly, it will automatically accept the cookie policy for you (sometimes it will accept all and sometimes only necessary cookie categories, depending on what's easier to do).
If there was a way to be assured that 99.9% of the time it hit reject all, instead of accept, I would absolutely use it.
Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
It looks like you don't know much about Europe. Let's start with browser. Opera, made in Norway. Search Engine. Ecosia, Qwant. Social network: Mastodon. Operating system: are you kidding right? Linux, Linus Torvalds is from Finland. E-commerce company, just a few : Otto Group (bigger than uber, close in size to Baidu), Zalando, Booking.com, Digitec Galaxus (Swiss company, now selling in Switzerland, Austria, France,…
We're talking companies, not open-source projects, protocols or non-profits. Europe has a bigger population than the US, so listing competitors that are much smaller than their US equivalents is not a good sign. Those companies located in the EU are mostly owned by US and sometimes Chinese investors. The reverse is not true - most US companies are almost exclusively owned by Americans. Americans own around half of al…
Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI
#89This isn't surprising. The speed of technological evolution is far far greater than the speed with which any government can act. By the time the EU revises their AI regulation plans . . . I can't even predict where the cutting edge of AI technology will be at.
With that, I'm honestly surprised GDPR ever even became a thing at all.
Re: ChatGPT broke the EU plan to regulate AI
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
It looks like you don't know much about Europe. Let's start with browser. Opera, made in Norway. Search Engine. Ecosia, Qwant. Social network: Mastodon. Operating system: are you kidding right? Linux, Linus Torvalds is from Finland. E-commerce company, just a few : Otto Group (bigger than uber, close in size to Baidu), Zalando, Booking.com, Digitec Galaxus (Swiss company, now selling in Switzerland, Austria, France,…
We're talking companies, not open-source projects, protocols or non-profits. Europe has a bigger population than the US, so listing competitors that are much smaller than their US equivalents is not a good sign. Those companies located in the EU are mostly owned by US and sometimes Chinese investors. The reverse is not true - most US companies are almost exclusively owned by Americans. Americans own around half of al…
Americans also had the privileged position of being located on a continent that has friendly neighbours, has extensive natural resources at its disposal, and half the continent did not get leveled during two world wars.
Not to mention, most of the financial wealth is bound up in dollars (mainly because of the aforementioned historical reasons), which in terms leads to it being stored in the US.