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Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

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Re: Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

#131

Post by Cpoll »

hinkley wrote: post #97
dogma1138 wrote: post #47

Looks like someone made a boo-boo it’s simply based on the user agent, w/e string matching they do is too strict they aren’t checking for actual JS/WebASM compatibility or anything like that. Chrome stable with a non standard user agent doesn’t work on via the windows live url but works through the O365 corporate one, same with Safari Mobile without any user agent modification. This to me looks like stupidity more th…

Microsoft has a long and storied history of claiming superior business acumen when it suits their narrative, and then incompetence when that does. “We are the smartest developers in the world” I’m told used to be something you heard on campus, presumably during the recruiting process, and in the board room. But if the Justice department comes knocking, they turn into Steve Urkel. You can’t have it both ways, and they…

> Microsoft has a long and storied history of claiming superior business acumen when it suits their narrative, and then incompetence when that does.

Not to say that they don't play dirty, but this isn't actually a contradiction. When you hire 100k workers, you're going to have the smartest developers in the world AND the Urkels.

And odds are the smart developers aren't being put to work on the login page.

Re: Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

#132

Post by capableweb »

l_theanine wrote: post #124
capableweb wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is assigning blame to a specific individual here, but to the corporation as a whole. A corporation that has time and time again been proven and acknowledged themselves to engage in anti-competitive behavior.

I think it's deliberately obtuse to claim to represent such an opinion. The people on "git blame" for this will end up being reprimanded in some way, in serious cases. If we're chalking it up to "Microsoft sucks" then that's fine, but it'd be better imo to just say THAT, rather than sneak up to the point via this auxiliary issue of this user agent string. Someone has to answer for these individual fuck-ups, it's inte…

> The people on "git blame" for this will end up being reprimanded in some way, in serious cases.

Ok, sucks to work at Microsoft then, it is not the fault at people outside Microsoft that they have terrible management, if that's how things go there.

> Someone has to answer for these individual fuck-ups, it's intentionally shitty behavior to be insinuating that someone did this maliciously under the guise of end users assuming innocence, thereby obscuring the responsibility for it.

Yes, management who are the decision makers should obviously answer for this, and if the culture is to blame some random engineer who happened to program it, the engineer is probably better off getting fired from such a toxic environment where they have to be some scapegoat for managements fuckups.

Re: Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

#134

Post by vorticalbox »

fatneckbeard wrote: post #82
dogma1138 wrote: post #47

Looks like someone made a boo-boo it’s simply based on the user agent, w/e string matching they do is too strict they aren’t checking for actual JS/WebASM compatibility or anything like that. Chrome stable with a non standard user agent doesn’t work on via the windows live url but works through the O365 corporate one, same with Safari Mobile without any user agent modification. This to me looks like stupidity more th…

do people do not remember Dr Dos ? if a coyote eats your cat, its probably not an accident. its more likely because it's a coyote and that's what coyotes do. it's in their nature.

As a counter point there is Hanlon's razor

> Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Re: Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

#135

Post by superkuh »

Modern web development has made it so that browsers are essentially just a VM for running javascript applications. Each megacorp (and mozilla, the odd institution out) browser is now it's own OS. It's no surprise that each OS is diverging from the others. Especially now that the W3C has been sidelined and the megacorp controlled WHATWG is making the calls (in the best case, in the worst, or more common case, each browser OS just does it's own proprietary thing).

You wouldn't be surprised that Windows or Mac OS can't run a linux elf, or vice versas. Same here. This phenomenon is web devs getting what they deserve and dragging everyone down with them.

Re: Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

#136

Post by hinkley »

Cpoll wrote: post #131
hinkley wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has a long and storied history of claiming superior business acumen when it suits their narrative, and then incompetence when that does. “We are the smartest developers in the world” I’m told used to be something you heard on campus, presumably during the recruiting process, and in the board room. But if the Justice department comes knocking, they turn into Steve Urkel. You can’t have it both ways, and they…

> Microsoft has a long and storied history of claiming superior business acumen when it suits their narrative, and then incompetence when that does. Not to say that they don't play dirty, but this isn't actually a contradiction. When you hire 100k workers, you're going to have the smartest developers in the world AND the Urkels. And odds are the smart developers aren't being put to work on the login page.

Peer pressure, oversight and processes are supposed to prevent a group of people from becoming more than the sum of their worst parts. Microsoft has always found a way to become the sum of the worst instead of the average or the intersection. They only stopped outwardly projecting that behavior for a while after the EU dropped sanctions on their asses. But that was four rounds of promotions ago so that’s all forgotten now.

Re: Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

#137

Post by ivandenysov »

Szpadel wrote: post #120
capableweb wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does using `window.navigator.userAgent` still work? Does it still return the actual user-agent? Yes, and because it does, people will use it. You (or standards) bodies can scream from the top of the mountains that it's deprecated, but it won't matter, because if it's there, it will be used.

but Microsoft should understand why this is an issue, they had to rename their windows from 9 to 10 because applications did check based on os name string and just exit after detecting it contains "windows 9" as it suppose to match windows 95 and windows 98

Where can I read more about this?

Re: Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

#138

Post by mynameisvlad »

l_theanine wrote: post #124
capableweb wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone is assigning blame to a specific individual here, but to the corporation as a whole. A corporation that has time and time again been proven and acknowledged themselves to engage in anti-competitive behavior.

I think it's deliberately obtuse to claim to represent such an opinion. The people on "git blame" for this will end up being reprimanded in some way, in serious cases. If we're chalking it up to "Microsoft sucks" then that's fine, but it'd be better imo to just say THAT, rather than sneak up to the point via this auxiliary issue of this user agent string. Someone has to answer for these individual fuck-ups, it's inte…

Most organizations, Microsoft included, employ a blameless policy.

It’s almost never an individual person’s fault, but rather that the process failed in stopping a regression from going through. If anything should be blamed, it’s that the process didn’t catch this; at the PR, testing, or release phases.

If individuals were reprimanded nearly as much as it’s implied, there wouldn’t be a lot of people employed at Microsoft or any other big company.

Re: Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

#139

Post by rozab »

I have a regular teams call with somebody, and never use it outside of this. A few months ago it was blocking both Firefox and Chromium user agents on Linux. Rather than mucking about with it I just switched to a Windows laptop for this meeting. But last week I tried it on Linux Firefox and it works (well, to the limited extent that teams works at all)

Re: Microsoft Teams is blocking Firefox Nightly

#140

Post by howinteresting »

rvz wrote: post #68
greendude29 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a controversial opinion as much as it is incongruent. > IMO It's better to adopt Chromium-based browsers and put pressure on Google to avoid letting it become the sole decision-maker about the web. But by using chromium/blink-based browsers, you have already taken the pressure off Google. You have already given them what they want, so you've forfeited your hand. For anyone out there who values the swiftly fa…

> For anyone out there who values the swiftly fading open-ness of the Internet, Firefox or other smaller FLOSS browsers are the right tools of choice. Mozilla had their chance at this decades ago and Firefox was the dominant browser against IE, 16 years ago, until they did a deal with Google, fell asleep at the wheel and allowed them to overtake and get sabotaged via Chrome's dominance. The same Mozilla CEO at the ti…

Chrome became popular by being bundled as shovelware with Flash and being marketed on google.com. There is literally no way for an open source browser to compete against that.

Mozilla has a lot of mismanagement but that's more of a symptom of Firefox being out-marketed in a way that was impossible to fight against.

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