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Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

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Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#101

Post by harvey9 »

vlovich123 wrote: post #84
crazygringo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In basically every retail store, and especially grocery/convenience stores, you are being observed by security cameras at literally every second. In every aisle. This has been the case for decades. It's how they catch shoplifters. I rather like the fact it can be used for customer convenience now, rather than just punitively.

And yet everything is now behind locked glass at the pharmacy. I doubt the cameras are that good at catching shoplifters.

There's a tipping point where it's cheaper to employ staff to get stuff out of a cabinet than to catch all the people stealing.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#102

Post by adrianmonk »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #13
endisneigh wrote: post #7

Amazon Go seems incredibly overengineered. Why is this superior than a portable scanning plus toggleable RFIDs that disable items on scan and alarm gates? Cameras everywhere and computer vision seems overkill.

>Cameras everywhere and computer vision seems overkill. If the goal is cashierless, why not just have a store full of vending machines? You pick what you want, tap your card or phone, then you get it, then walk out.

This might generate more buyer friction[1]. Grabbing an item from a shelf is very easily reversible. But when you push a button for a vending machine to dispense something, it's not obvious how to undo that. So you will hesitate more.

Also, when people change their minds about buying something, stores need to re-shelve that product. That's probably more labor intensive for vending machines than for regular shelves. For that matter, stocking it in the first place is probably more labor intensive.

---

[1] Every obstacle you encounter, even a tiny inconvenience, will reduce the odds that you go through with a purchase.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#103

Post by bogomipz »

kentosi wrote: post #8

Slightly misleading title. They're closing 8 of their stores across NYC, SF, etc, and this is after they just opened a few more across the US.

From the article:

>"The retailer also opened a number of locations last year in Southern California. As of last month, Amazon operated 31 Go stores in total."

>"With these closures, the company will have 23 Go stores, the spokesperson said."

That's a loss of 8 stores.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#104

Post by harvey9 »

chrischen wrote: post #24
leesalminen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mother-in-law operates the self-checkout lanes at a Kroger brand store in the midwest. The honor system definitely does not work there. Shoplifting is through the roof over the past couple years. It's gotten so bad that management is debating shutting off the self-checkout lanes. A few months ago she was pepper sprayed after confronting a shoplifter who had an entire cart of things, but only scanned and paid for 3…

That's not really a self-checkout problem though is it. I mean, SF has stores that don't have self-checkout but the thieves that come in and wheel out a tobacco shelving unit are not taking advantage of "self-checkout"... they are taking advantage of the fact that 1) there is no proper security and 2) the police don't respond. My point is that anywhere that unmanned stores with cameras can work, so would self-checkou…

I think there's an important difference between unmanned and self checkout which you missed from the post you replied to: the person who scans a few items but steals others at a self checkout. In a no checkout store you already identified yourself in order to get inside and the store knows what you picked up and took out.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#105

Post by mynameisvlad »

everdrive wrote: post #98
Nanana909 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't use the app So then why attempt to go to a store that’s entirely based on using the app? The store concept is based around your account - and you didn’t know your account details. The app can help avoid this, but you also refused to use the app. How is this any different than someone who refuses to use their password to sign in to Amazon.com and complains about not being able to submit a return? Or going to…

It's different because there's a long-standing precedent that you don't need to install a smartphone app to use a store.

Sure, but Amazon Go is, as the comment you replied to states, a store which literally is built to require an app to use. This argument is thrown out the window when you shop at a store which explicitly and from its inception has required this.

As the commenter stated,

> So then why attempt to go to a store that’s entirely based on using the app?

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#106

Post by bentcorner »

crazygringo wrote: post #23
nomy99 wrote: post #10

I shopped at their location at 30 rock. It was a mixed bag feeling. I was in awe of the technology, but at the same time I felt like I was being overly observed like in a prison.. I never went back, even though I work in the building.

In basically every retail store, and especially grocery/convenience stores, you are being observed by security cameras at literally every second. In every aisle. This has been the case for decades. It's how they catch shoplifters. I rather like the fact it can be used for customer convenience now, rather than just punitively.

If you go into one of the Amazon grocery stores there's cameras literally every foot, possibly less. Way more than a traditional grocery store.

I don't know what exactly Amazon is trying to do though. Their prices aren't competitive and the "don't mess around with checking out" benefits aren't exactly a huge time saver, self checkout is a solved problem and doesn't take a ton of time.

Not being able to immediately see your receipt on exit is also a big downside - they charged me for something I put back on the shelf which makes me not want to go there either, I need to remember to check my receipt at some unknown later point in time and try to match it up with stuff that has probably already been put away.

All around IMO it's a worse grocery store to go to.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#107

Post by rpadovani »

jstummbillig wrote: post #99

I have actually had a very positive experience with cashier-less shopping – albeit not with Amazon Go and in the EU. As of now, it's been heavily benefited from never having to wait in a line (because the vast majority of people will still opt for the cashier lanes) but I actually found the UX (which in my case always included scanning of products like a cashier would) actually quite delightful and surprisingly never…

In Italy, it has been years, if not decades, that in a chain of large supermarkets there is a system where, when you enter the supermarket, you can pick up a barcode reader.

While you are doing your shopping, you scan your products. At the exit, you scan a QR code to end the shopping, you pay, and off you go.

The huge advantage, apart from no queues, is that you don't have to remove stuff from your cart, making it way, way quicker.

You can have a “random” check where everything will be scanned again by a real cashier.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#108

Post by kube-system »

Razengan wrote: post #54
thfuran wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are very few items I would ever buy from such a store. You can't really get a good look at the items in a vending machine, and you can't put an item back.

But for something you've always bought, the mundane daily items, you don't really need to check anything, same as with regular vending machines. Returns could be implemented.

There’s at least one item I look at the nutrition facts for every time I go to the store. Even if the vast majority of my items are the same, it only takes one item where I have not memorized the nutrition facts to make that an inconvenience. Or any produce, where people like to judge quality and ripeness. And also, many people like to browse for new products.

I guess it is possible, but it sounds like it’s all the disadvantages of Instacart with all of the disadvantages of going to the store.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#109

Post by annexrichmond »

amelius wrote: post #95
nprateem wrote: post #30

I had to go to one to return a package. I couldn't get past the turnstiles because I don't use the app and don't know my password because I use a password manager. This meant I couldn't hand my parcel in at the counter. The woman on the turnstile wouldn't let me in even when I explained the situation. So she went off and got a scanner to take my package. She didn't offer a receipt, and when I asked for one said it wa…

The endgame in capitalism is something that is remarkably close to a bureaucratic all-controlling government.

Only if monopolies are allowed to flourish, because, that's what the government basically is - a monopoly on all services for which there's no private counterparts.

Re: Amazon is closing its cashierless stores in NYC, San Francisco and Seattle

#110

Post by Nextgrid »

Someone1234 wrote: post #33
crazygringo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In basically every retail store, and especially grocery/convenience stores, you are being observed by security cameras at literally every second. In every aisle. This has been the case for decades. It's how they catch shoplifters. I rather like the fact it can be used for customer convenience now, rather than just punitively.

In typical stores (e.g. Walmart, Target, etc), most of those cameras housings don't contain cameras. The main issue isn't that cameras are expensive, it is that monitoring that many cameras is expensive/impractical, and automated theft detection systems are still in their infancy. So they just target high value/common areas, and rely on deterrents (like people believing they have a lot of cameras, off-duty cops at th…

> In particular with how advanced Gift Card Theft-Clone-Return Activation fraud is

Completely self-inflicted problem, happy to see such schadenfreude unfold. There's already a gift card that's pretty much immune to fraud (or at the very least makes fraud the bank's problem): money.

Gift cards are horrible waste and scam and ultimately only benefit the store at the expense of the buyer or the recipient of the card - you're turning good, actual cash, in something that's less valuable because now it has usage restrictions on them.

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