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Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

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Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#191

Post by ur-whale »

AnonymousPlanet wrote: post #130
JanSt wrote: post #43

My wife had a daily 45km rail+2km bus trip to work which was 200€ per month. That's massive savings for many people who choose not to drive with cars. Her colleagues drive to work with cars for 2 km trips and ask her whether she does not own a car (we do). Taking the train is a) cheaper b) more relaxed (can read) c) better for the environment d) it's even faster in her case The €49 ticket could give public transporta…

I use public transport to go to work. But it's not really convenient. It takes me about 45 minutes to get there. And that's if everything goes well. Half an hour of that is walking (to and from bus stops) and waiting (you should be several minutes early because busses sometimes leave early themselves, but most of the time they are late). So there's not much reading that can be done. Also, try reading while you're wai…

> Half an hour of that is walking

You could buy an electric scooter.

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#192

Post by codethief »

machina_ex_deus wrote: post #179
JanSt wrote: post #43

My wife had a daily 45km rail+2km bus trip to work which was 200€ per month. That's massive savings for many people who choose not to drive with cars. Her colleagues drive to work with cars for 2 km trips and ask her whether she does not own a car (we do). Taking the train is a) cheaper b) more relaxed (can read) c) better for the environment d) it's even faster in her case The €49 ticket could give public transporta…

I was in Berlin once as a tourist and I was surprised how bad is the planning of buses. They stop and wait in the station until their time arrives (in the middle of the route), with 20 people on them, wasting everyone's time. That's just incredibly dumb planning. I get that the point is to be more "reliable" and "on time" but what's the point of being accurate if you're so slow?! At some points Google maps suggested…

> They stop and wait in the station until their time arrives.

So you're suggesting… they shouldn't follow a schedule?

The bus only ever needs to wait when there are no people getting on/off the bus at multiple stops in a row (e.g. at night-time), so then those stops will be skipped. As a consequence, the bus will be a few minutes ahead of time and so at some point the driver will stop and wait to make sure the bus is still following the schedule.

Sometimes the bus also needs to stop because drivers take their mandatory break. This usually happens at the end of the line, though, before they return or go on under a different line number.

In any case: I have yet to see a public transport system as good as Berlin's. Yes, it might still take you a while to get from A to B (it is a big city after all) but which other major city in the world offers reliable 24/7 public transport with great coverage and is not completely overloaded all the time? The only thing I dislike is the price for single tickets which is between 3.00€ and 3.80€ depending on the zone. (That used to be a kebap!) IMO they should finally put an end of all the free-riding (by both Berliners and tourists alike) and introduce electronic ticket checks at every stop.

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#193

Post by tmalsburg2 »

siva7 wrote: post #48
JanSt wrote: post #43

My wife had a daily 45km rail+2km bus trip to work which was 200€ per month. That's massive savings for many people who choose not to drive with cars. Her colleagues drive to work with cars for 2 km trips and ask her whether she does not own a car (we do). Taking the train is a) cheaper b) more relaxed (can read) c) better for the environment d) it's even faster in her case The €49 ticket could give public transporta…

That's not quite in the interest of the car manufacturers that public transportation is cheaper than cars which is one of the reasons this took so long.

I don't think that people use cars because it's cheaper. Owning and using a car in Germany is pretty expensive and public transport probably was already cheaper for the vast majority of use cases.

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#194

Post by input_sh »

vanviegen wrote: post #100
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #13

I'm somewhat surprised that they go for this model. It's 49 Euro per month with restrictions to regional services. However that ticket is available for tourists, students, pensioners, workers and regular people at the same price point. I would have assumed they make that ticket only available yearly and with discounts to students or pensioners. The way the Austrian ticket works (91 Euro per month for regulars, 68.5 E…

Why would it be desirable to have pensioners pay less and tourists pay more? I imagine this model will attract quite a bit of additional tourists (without their annoying cars), which is a good thing (for most cities).

Cause if you're a tourist you're expected to spend money and a small price hike compared to locals won't impact your decision one way or the other.

I also had this reaction a couple of years ago when my city started to introduce special touristy pricings, but nowadays I don't think it's a bad thing. The local government introduced a special "city card" which is essentially a museum card + hotel discounts + free public transport (within the city) + cheaper or free access to all touristy spots. If you travel on a budget, you just have to jump through an overtly advertised hoop, and if you can't be arsed to do so you end up paying a little bit extra. Locals don't have to bother, as showing our local ID is enough to "unlock" lower pricing. Win-win in my book.

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#195

Post by photochemsyn »

As oil & gas prices blast off, it looks like importers (Germany and others) will be doing all they can to minimize domestic demand for fossil fuels:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60502451

"Oil hits seven-year high but shares rebound on Russian war 24 Feb 2022"

https://splash247.com/european-gas-prices-soar-following-dam...

"European gas prices soar following damage to Nord Stream pipelines Sep 28 2022"

Accelerating the transition off fossil fuels is good news, and better access to electrified public transit systems are right in line with that goal.

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#196

Post by tmalsburg2 »

msavio wrote: post #105

> But the Deutschlandticket is not the end of the story: to make it still more attractive, German Rail is also planning to introduce more modern and faster trains. According to the Federal Ministry of Transport, this will create almost 20,000 new seats on long-distance services. The mentioned trains are ICE long-distance trains. Exactly those that are not included in the ticket the article is about. It does not make…

We don't need faster trains in Germany. We need trains that are more or less on time. Punctuality is a complete disaster and probably the main reason why people hate taking the train in Germany. If you have a connection that requires changing to another train, the chance that you miss your connection is too damn high.

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#197

Post by lispm »

Aachen wrote: post #78
lispm wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I book a train ticket, the regional trains are already included. My local public transport system (HVV) has online & smart phone ticketing for many many years now. A regional operator where the ticket can't be bought online or via a smartphone should be really really rare in Germany by now. Which operator is it, which has no online payment option?

AVV.de, the menu options for ticket buying are "am Automat" and "Vorverkaufstellen" which is a list of physical stores. ...which I guess is why I never looked further and saw they have an app now. Never heard of Naveo before, maybe it was introduced recently? Either way, that looks like it might now be possible! Why did no driver ever mention / did the buses/stations not advertise this before it's ripe for being repl…

Yep, there seems to be a Naveo App.

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#198

Post by kitkat_new »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #114
lytefm wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We still have massive subsidies for providing leased new cars, mostly selected from German car manufacturers, to employees (about 3 bn per year [1]). Few people in the upper middle class and above will use public transport instead of their car, if it's provided by their employer. The results from the 9€ Ticket also indicate that people aren't using their car that less often. They are just using the ticket to do addit…

My take is that in many, if not most, cases people choose based on convenience and practicality unless one option is simply unaffordable. In Europe in general affordability of public transport is not the problem so I don't expect that decreasing prices will have a big effect on use.

it is a problem, especially if you need a car anyways.

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#199

Post by nforgerit »

incrudible wrote: post #175
siva7 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not destroying it but forcing them to acknowledge the truth about climate.

The truth about the climate is that whatever Germany does, it does not really make a difference, but also that what they have done (rolling out renewables) did not even work (high CO2 footprint, dependency on gas, coal and electricity imports).

You're parroting populist statements of political parties who actively destroyed the chance Germany had to transform their energy system and industry towards green energy. And now the same people are claiming that they were right from the beginning.

The "truth" is that the Energiewende was a wise decision from early 2000s for Germany making a case that it'd be possible to transform an industry nation to renewables and possibly export technology to other countries since we all frantically should figure out ways to reduce our carbon emissions.

Germany would be at ~80% electricity from renewables by now if the Merkel government in 2013 wouldn't have stopped it: Renewables were heavily subsidized by the German electricity customers and was so successful around 2012 that electricity prices skyrocketed; instead of finding other ways to further boost the building of more renewables while lowering electricity prices for the customers, they just stopped it. And when Merkel also irrationally decided quit nuclear energy after Fukushima even earlier (2022) and Russia quit delivering cheap gas, we're now in this pity situation in which we have to burn coal like its 1920.

So don't claim it "did not even work" because they didn't really try.

Re: Deutschlandticket for regional bus and rail services to be offered for €49/month

#200

Post by kitkat_new »

bratwurst3000 wrote: post #169
throwaway87915 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that about the fuel and not the vehicle? If we manufactured diesel out of wood or algae, the same cars would suddenly become very green - in case of algae cultivation for fuel, you can reach carbon negativity (the process net-decreased carbon in atmosphere). This is likely more green than building battery electric vehicles with large capacity. Batteries are great but cars don't need more than 100km of charge. L…

You are right about biodiesel. Most energydense crops that we grow are used for meat production and generates a shitlod of greenhouse gases on the way. Less meat consumption would mean more crops could be used for biodiesel

and bio diesel production is worse for the climate than fossil diesel, because of the amount of agricultural work that needs to be done
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