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The 15-Minute City: Where Urban Planning Meets Conspiracy Theories

nytimes.com

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Re: The 15-Minute City: Where Urban Planning Meets Conspiracy Theories

#41

Post by pjc50 »

fwungy wrote: post #35
janalsncm wrote: post #24

Here’s a conspiracy: car manufacturers don’t want walkable cities.

Look what's happening to car manufacturers. They're becoming "mobility" companies. They aren't switching to EV because they want to, it makes no sense for them as businesses, in multiple ways. An EV is a commodity vehicle - that's why Apple can build a car without a hundred year history of auto building. The car makers are being forced to do this by policy regulators. The government is essentially managing the auto i…

> The government is essentially managing the auto industry now to force their outcome.

Yes, there's a long history of safety and environmental regulation, and the migration away from fossil fuels is just an extension of that, regulating the impact of cars.

Re: The 15-Minute City: Where Urban Planning Meets Conspiracy Theories

#42

Post by dolorian »

Part of the confusion comes from partisan thinking. WEF supports 15 minute cities (aka walkable neighborhoods) because it's a better use of resources, there are benefits for 99%ers and 1%ers alike, urbanists and ruralites. The trouble is that our polarized system means if you think the WEF is evil, then it's impossible for any of their goals to be beneficial to you. Compare: Many people today believe that Hitler was evil, but will accept that projects like the autobahn or innovations in rocketry were mostly beneficial.

Dismissing all opposing views as "hateful misinformation" like the WEF and governments do isn't useful either. It convinces those who were suspicious of your motivations that they were right about you. The WEF videos never really explain any of the potential for good, they just exclaim with glee that this is a great opportunity to change the world the way they want. Completely tone deaf, I'd say some of these causes would receive less resistance without WEF "helping".

When it comes to the walkable neighborhood issue, the real conspiracy is that automakers "convinced" governments to create infrastructure that's miserable to nagivate without a car. If you've never been to cities outside of north america then you probably don't even know what you're missing. Those who think freedom and privacy are important (I certainly do) might want to consider that a car results in licensing, insurance, license plate tracking and gives cops an excuse to detain you arbitrarily.

The last but probably most important issue that gets left unsaid is that the current system won't continue to work. North American cities are broke from (re)building roads to subsidize trucking companies and mcmansion developers, they can't afford to continue doing so without raising taxes 300%. Even bigger: we'll run out of oil in 50 years. We won't run out of energy, just the cheap and easily transportable form that we've become accustomed to. The options are build railways, or quit bothering with silly things like "trade", "travel" and "manufacturing".

Re: The 15-Minute City: Where Urban Planning Meets Conspiracy Theories

#43

Post by supertrope »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #29
supertrope wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automobile dependent zoning regulations favor making driving easy to the detriment to everything else. Entire neighborhoods were bulldozed to make room for highways. Preserving unlimited free parking comes at the expense of rent zooming up due to the new supply of real estate being blocked. There are other ways for people to get downtown. Parking can be pushed to the periphery of the business & entertainment district…

The root cause is the hubris to think we can "centrally plan but not really" utopia with these sorts of broad brush regulatory and carrot/stick policy changes. Suburban sprawl (though they had different words for it) was very much the "15-minute city" urban planning buzzword of its day. As an aside sidewalks are SOP these days in all but the most rural of road projects so progress is being made.

There's some good reforms that decrease government intervention. Legalizing apartments, duplexes, additional dwelling units, by loosening zoning. Ending mandated minimum parking requirements to let the market set the supply of parking instead of having city planning officials go off dogma or old laws. The mortgage interest tax deduction has been reduced thanks to the standard deduction exceeding itemizing in all but the most expensive states.

Re: The 15-Minute City: Where Urban Planning Meets Conspiracy Theories

#44

Post by dolorian »

supertrope wrote: post #37
mistrial9 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it becomes different when there is automated, remote enforcement associated with fines

I think we'd be better off with 100% toll roads. Instead of feeling like you got singled out with a fine, just pay for what you use.

This is the real answer, but we're too used to the game of wealth redistribution, where we're all secretly hoping someone else will pay for what we want. It's very antisocial, it externalizes the costs of your actions onto everyone else.

Trucking causes 99% of damage to roads, but pays only 30% of the bill.

Re: The 15-Minute City: Where Urban Planning Meets Conspiracy Theories

#45

Post by dsfyu404ed »

pjc50 wrote: post #40
zamnos wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a very difficult technology. Thankfully, depending on your jurisdiction, that's seen as a violation of civil rights, and is illegal (unless manually operated by a police officer, in the case of Nevada, for instance).

Oxford is not in Nevada. This is where the culture war comes in: there's no reason why people in Nevada should care about traffic planning in Oxford!

>This is where the culture war comes in: there's no reason why people in Nevada should care about traffic planning in Oxford!

The bulk of the commentary on this website consists of people who are not directly affected by a thing opining about that thing.

Why the double standard? What makes your interest legitimate while others is illegitimate?

Re: The 15-Minute City: Where Urban Planning Meets Conspiracy Theories

#46

Post by fwungy »

pjc50 wrote: post #41
fwungy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look what's happening to car manufacturers. They're becoming "mobility" companies. They aren't switching to EV because they want to, it makes no sense for them as businesses, in multiple ways. An EV is a commodity vehicle - that's why Apple can build a car without a hundred year history of auto building. The car makers are being forced to do this by policy regulators. The government is essentially managing the auto i…

> The government is essentially managing the auto industry now to force their outcome. Yes, there's a long history of safety and environmental regulation, and the migration away from fossil fuels is just an extension of that, regulating the impact of cars.

Notice the passive voice.

Re: The 15-Minute City: Where Urban Planning Meets Conspiracy Theories

#47

Post by 908B64B197 »

briandon wrote: post #7

In the most-detailed example of such initiatives described in the article, the steps taken in Oxford include ALPR-camera-triggered automated fines for driving on certain roadways at certain times of certain days to those "without a permit" (who is eligible for the special permits, how eligibility is determined, etc. is not discussed) and actual blocking of other streets using bollards (and heavy planters and other ob…

> include ALPR-camera-triggered automated fines for driving on certain roadways at certain times of certain days to those "without a permit" (who is eligible for the special permits, how eligibility is determined, etc. is not discussed)

The issue with these scheme, is that they are pushed and implemented by bureaucrats rather than innovators. What a bureaucrat knows how to do (and what's beneficial to him) is to create new regulations, bureaucratic processes and levy taxes, fines, fees and so on. Where the money's actually going? Some opaque budget where it's redistributed to fund, among other things, salaries and generous pensions for the bureaucrats that have to be hired to manage this extra regulation!

The real solution to incentivize using the ring roads is to make them more efficient and a faster, better alternative to going through the center of the city. That requires understanding why people are still driving through.

The other issue is that anti-car activists are often idealists rather than pragmatic. Their approach to selling the 15 minute city should be to make it so that it's cheaper than driving everywhere, faster and more convenient, while leaving the option for people to still own a car and use it. Naturally, if not taking the car is the better option, people will leave them in a parking garage most of the time.

Re: The 15-Minute City: Where Urban Planning Meets Conspiracy Theories

#48

Post by fwungy »

schnable wrote: post #21
fwungy wrote: post #13

Remember the conspiracy theory that the present administration wanted to ban gas stoves? It was a lie. They only want to ban half of them, and it wasn't even the President, it's an agency - https://www.eenews.net/articles/doe-rule-may-block-50-of-new...

Huh? The DOE works for the president, and if you read the article you posted, the 50% number is dubious.

[flagged]

Re: The 15-Minute City: Where Urban Planning Meets Conspiracy Theories

#49

Post by janalsncm »

fwungy wrote: post #35
janalsncm wrote: post #24

Here’s a conspiracy: car manufacturers don’t want walkable cities.

Look what's happening to car manufacturers. They're becoming "mobility" companies. They aren't switching to EV because they want to, it makes no sense for them as businesses, in multiple ways. An EV is a commodity vehicle - that's why Apple can build a car without a hundred year history of auto building. The car makers are being forced to do this by policy regulators. The government is essentially managing the auto i…

EV or not, having to drive everywhere is poor urban design.

Re: The 15-Minute City: Where Urban Planning Meets Conspiracy Theories

#50

Post by aquarium87 »

LatteLazy wrote: post #20
aquarium87 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what if governments are always spouting nonsense and implementing it because they have nothing better to do? I don't know these as 15 minute cities, I know these as anti-urban sprawl, pro-environment, anti-car neighborhoods. And the push has been on for over a decade to make this happen. Now that it's here, it's worse than thought. It's not just planning these things and letting people live and work close to home…

Well I don't think anyone is buying politicians for PRO environmental legislation but... I have to give you credit: at least you are just up front about not wanting this. That's fine. You're a citizen with a right to a view etc. I only object when people start pretending it's all part of some shadow government, new world order, lizard people plot...

And yet it is. But not the way you think. It's all about elite groupthink. They have drinks and talk stuff over and turn their noses up at each other until they are on the same page as to what is desirable and then judge each other based on these elitist social goals and who can achieve them and cement their names immortal.

And anyone that gets in the way.... Fired, defunded, shunned, labeled conspiracy theorist etc.

And just you wait. The money isn't flowing yet, but it will. For a city of a million people, maybe buying 8-10 councillors for $100,000 each will accomplish any goal. And noone cares enough about city politics to stop that kind of thing.

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