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Megaupload Takedown Questioned By Users, Lawyers

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Re: Megaupload Takedown Questioned By Users, Lawyers

#21

Post by lawnchair_larry »

mpyne wrote: post #18
nostromo wrote: post #3

I really liked this analysis in Salon: http://www.salon.com/2012/01/21/two_lessons_from_the_megaupl... Sorry for the extended quote, but it's a great article. > (1) It’s wildly under-appreciated how unrestrained is the Government’s power to do what it wants, and how little effect these debates over various proposed laws have on that power. Contrary to how it was portrayed, the Obama administration’s threatened veto o…

> And now here is Megaupload being completely destroyed — its website shuttered, its assets seized, ongoing business rendered impossible — based solely on the unproven accusation of Piracy. It was proven to a grand jury -- that's why they (and not the government) handed down an indictment. The treatment is actually similar to what would happen to the brick-and-mortar assets of an indicted meth distributor. Normally w…

It is offensive to compare a youtube/dropbox hybrid to a meth distributor. That smells of appeal to emotion.

Re: Megaupload Takedown Questioned By Users, Lawyers

#22

Post by firefoxman1 »

res0nat0r wrote: post #15
firefoxman1 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all know MegaUpload is the go-to place for pirated content. That's not really in question. The question here is: Is our government following the rules our founding fathers laid out, or do they believe they can cut straight to taking down a company 90% out of their jurisdiction without even following due process. The whole reason it's a debate is because if we, as citizens, don't watch our government closely when t…

The arrests overseas we executed in full cooperation with those local countries governments. Not via some rogue operation.

Yeah I did read that. The police in the respective countries carried out the actual arrests. But since when did the U.S. see themselves the official justice department for the entire world? (I guess the answer is "since WWII") But how many people in the U.S. were being so irreversibly harmed by MegaUpload that our government felt such a need to command this world-wide operation.

Re: Megaupload Takedown Questioned By Users, Lawyers

#23

Post by victork2 »

powertower wrote: post #7

I still don't get what this fuss is about? Do you really think that MegaUpload generated 175MM from a few users signing up to a paid account, and from ads and scams that were displayed on URLs with legit content. If 95% of their revenue came from copyrighted material being shared (without permission), then I'd say MU was a criminal enterprise and what happened was completely okay. If 5%, than not okay. The supporting…

Hi,

Indeed your quick analysis is true: MegaUpload was a platform to download copyrighted things over the internet.

But there is a greater principle at play: when should action be taken? The way it is done in democracy and countries where liberty is valued is that the action taken is done after due process. Also and I think this is pretty damn important there are international rules in terms of law and what can be done. Citizens of other countries should have the right to benefit from the law in vigor in their country without the US interfering with them. The US is not all saint and sometimes take poor decisions that cost the business, health or life of some people, especially when the problem comes from private interests.

Anyway if you allow authorities to take action without due process you end up in dark dark world where arrests become arbitrary. There were plenty of evidence that MegaUpload business was not legit actions could have been taken legally, but probably bribes came into play and short-circuited the whole thing. This becomes rampant in the US (Bradley Manning anyone ?) and it has to stop before it's too late.

Re: Megaupload Takedown Questioned By Users, Lawyers

#24

Post by epoxyhockey »

Natsu wrote: post #5
epoxyhockey wrote: post #2

I'm still wondering how the US legally obtained copies of Megaupload internal email prior to seizing their servers.

Warrants and/or subpoenas. I seem to recall that email that has been stored long enough doesn't even require a subpoena. I guess it depends on where the email was hosted and who had access.

Ok, so the FBI served Carpathia with a search warrant and .. somehow copied the internal email directly from the physical server without MU being aware of that? The FBI then goes home with their USB stick and reads through that collection of email to find incriminating evidence. That evidence is used as a foundation for their indictment, which is then presented to a grand jury.. to then go back to Carpathia and physically take all of the servers?

Just trying to figure this out..

Re: Megaupload Takedown Questioned By Users, Lawyers

#25

Post by aviv »

epoxyhockey wrote: post #24
Natsu wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warrants and/or subpoenas. I seem to recall that email that has been stored long enough doesn't even require a subpoena. I guess it depends on where the email was hosted and who had access.

Ok, so the FBI served Carpathia with a search warrant and .. somehow copied the internal email directly from the physical server without MU being aware of that? The FBI then goes home with their USB stick and reads through that collection of email to find incriminating evidence. That evidence is used as a foundation for their indictment, which is then presented to a grand jury.. to then go back to Carpathia and physi…

From their website: "Carpathia Government Solutions™ (CGS™) is the leading provider of federally-compliant managed hosting services for government agencies" -- MegaUpload chose the wrong hosting provider for their type of business.

Re: Megaupload Takedown Questioned By Users, Lawyers

#26

Post by yassim »

powertower wrote: post #17
learc83 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the cutoff? Is it a 50/50 thing? If my site makes 10% of it's revenue from pirates, should I go to jail? Google makes plenty of money from sites that host counterfeit goods and copyrighted material, should Larry Page go to jail?

Does your business completely revolve around profiting from the illegal distribution of copyrighted works?

Did theirs? Can real numbers be shown of the money that was generated by piracy with this service vs money that was not?

My guess is from this point we will never know the real unbiased numbers, not matter who wins.

Edit: to clarify tone.

Re: Megaupload Takedown Questioned By Users, Lawyers

#27

Post by powertower »

firefoxman1 wrote: post #22
res0nat0r wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The arrests overseas we executed in full cooperation with those local countries governments. Not via some rogue operation.

Yeah I did read that. The police in the respective countries carried out the actual arrests. But since when did the U.S. see themselves the official justice department for the entire world? (I guess the answer is "since WWII") But how many people in the U.S. were being so irreversibly harmed by MegaUpload that our government felt such a need to command this world-wide operation.

> But since when did the U.S. see themselves the official justice department for the entire world?

I'm still confused on why you're confused. MU was distributing copyrighted material around the globe.

The US gathered evidence, presented that evidence to its partners, partners made the arrest.

It's a global network, there are various treaties, and there is cooperation.

Re: Megaupload Takedown Questioned By Users, Lawyers

#28

Post by Seth_Kriticos »

firefoxman1 wrote: post #22
res0nat0r wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The arrests overseas we executed in full cooperation with those local countries governments. Not via some rogue operation.

Yeah I did read that. The police in the respective countries carried out the actual arrests. But since when did the U.S. see themselves the official justice department for the entire world? (I guess the answer is "since WWII") But how many people in the U.S. were being so irreversibly harmed by MegaUpload that our government felt such a need to command this world-wide operation.

Probably a few dozen. All very well packed and with excellent tie-ins to officials.

Welcome to the new democracy.

Not to defend MU here. Just don't think all that many people felt the harm for what they were doing. And if you ask artists, they will probably point you in different direction.

Re: Megaupload Takedown Questioned By Users, Lawyers

#29

Post by wmf »

epoxyhockey wrote: post #24
Natsu wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warrants and/or subpoenas. I seem to recall that email that has been stored long enough doesn't even require a subpoena. I guess it depends on where the email was hosted and who had access.

Ok, so the FBI served Carpathia with a search warrant and .. somehow copied the internal email directly from the physical server without MU being aware of that? The FBI then goes home with their USB stick and reads through that collection of email to find incriminating evidence. That evidence is used as a foundation for their indictment, which is then presented to a grand jury.. to then go back to Carpathia and physi…

If Mega was running their own email server then I agree that a search warrant wouldn't help much, since it would tip off the targets. Maybe Carnivore could work in that scenario. But if they were using SaaS email, the warrant could be delivered to the service provider and the targets would never know.

Re: Megaupload Takedown Questioned By Users, Lawyers

#30

Post by dkl »

mpyne wrote: post #18
nostromo wrote: post #3

I really liked this analysis in Salon: http://www.salon.com/2012/01/21/two_lessons_from_the_megaupl... Sorry for the extended quote, but it's a great article. > (1) It’s wildly under-appreciated how unrestrained is the Government’s power to do what it wants, and how little effect these debates over various proposed laws have on that power. Contrary to how it was portrayed, the Obama administration’s threatened veto o…

> And now here is Megaupload being completely destroyed — its website shuttered, its assets seized, ongoing business rendered impossible — based solely on the unproven accusation of Piracy. It was proven to a grand jury -- that's why they (and not the government) handed down an indictment. The treatment is actually similar to what would happen to the brick-and-mortar assets of an indicted meth distributor. Normally w…

Since when is a grand jury indictment "proof" of anything?? All it allows is for a criminal case to move forward. The defense isn't even allow IN THE ROOM! Jeez, let's not be sloppy here.
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