Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

AirPods causing tinnitus?

discussions.apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 200 posts

Re: AirPods causing tinnitus?

#131

Post by makk »

Terretta wrote: post #116
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #108

Keep in mind that Apple sells around 100 million sets of AirPods per year: https://9to5mac.com/2022/12/05/airpods-pro-2-sales/ At this scale, it's nearly impossible to separate coincidence from causality in scattered anecdotes.

And all of them used with current iOS, iPadOS, and MacOS offer default volume limits and proactive notifications about excess decibels, set quite low, and iPhones themselves offer environmental volume warnings as well now. To get hearing damage generally requires disabling or raising levels on this feature not on offer from most players+headsets.

Generally, sure. But some of us are raising the possibility that there's something else going on that isn't captured by the limits, notifications and warnings. I didn't mention it in my original post but I always used my AirPod Max with the hard cap decibel limit set to the minimum value, and even then I wouldn't have them turned all the way up.

Re: AirPods causing tinnitus?

#132

Post by [deleted] »

bornfreddy wrote: post #112

This is my biggest reservation against using (any) noise cancelling headphones. IIUC, they work by emitting the same frequency sound, a bit delayed, which cancels the sound in the targeted place - but doubles its amplitude in vicinity, because this is how waves work (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). I can't imagine being blasted with a loud sound in the vicinity of our hearing organs is very healthy. Instead, I…

[deleted]

Re: AirPods causing tinnitus?

#133

Post by roncesvalles »

Anecdotal but I also had tinnitus after using ANC headphones for a year. Got a hearing test and an MRI scan (to rule out acoustic neuroma) and they found nothing. Switched off ANC, tinnitus went away after a few weeks.

If you search for ANC-induced tinnitus on forums, there are hundreds of anecdotes. Yet all the (few) studies that I looked at showed ANC to be completely safe and not related to tinnitus.

This incident made me consider scientific papers and my interpretation of them a whole notch more critically than before.

Re: AirPods causing tinnitus?

#134

Post by mo_42 »

Probably not, especially considering how many items have been sold.

In contrast, I think ANC can be protective for your ears. The AirPods itself block loud noise a bit and the ANC helps me listening to low-volume music. For example, the Berlin underground trains make extremely loud noises. The speakers are so loud I think they should be forbidden.

Re: AirPods causing tinnitus?

#135

Post by deergomoo »

bornfreddy wrote: post #112

This is my biggest reservation against using (any) noise cancelling headphones. IIUC, they work by emitting the same frequency sound, a bit delayed, which cancels the sound in the targeted place - but doubles its amplitude in vicinity, because this is how waves work (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). I can't imagine being blasted with a loud sound in the vicinity of our hearing organs is very healthy. Instead, I…

I’m no expert, but I thought they worked by destructive interference? i.e. they emit the opposite sound, and (providing they can match the amplitude) reduce the incoming wave to nothing, which is why we don’t hear anything.

Re: AirPods causing tinnitus?

#136

Post by lloeki »

fwlr wrote: post #98

Lifelong tinnitus sufferer here. The prevailing theory (edit: this is misleading, it is not the “prevailing theory”, I typed that without thinking. It is actually a new-ish/fringe-ish alternative to the actual prevailing theory of accumulated damage to ear fibers): The theory I subscribe to is that tinnitus is a breakdown of the ears’ and/or brain’s noise filtering and suppression mechanisms. Long-term use of white n…

> a sudden loud noise is perceived as extraordinarily and painfully loud

AIUI this is normally handled by the stapedial reflex[0], which is not simply "passive" dampening, but indeed active muscle action! So the comparison below may be very apt:

> similar principle to weightlifting to stress your muscles so they grow stronger in response

Interestingly enough, I find that since I started WFH + being unable to go out less (parenthood) I have a hard time bearing sudden loud noises (feels like being punched while caught off guard and not having time to brace for impact)... It may turn out that this reflex which used to be very efficient is now dramatically less so these days. Never thought about it this way, I just thought that I was, like, "getting older"...

Tangentially: I cannot stand active noise cancellation, it creates an instant feeling of pressure on my eardrums, which is uneasy for a few minutes until I "get used" to it... until I disable it or remove the headset, and the immediate feeling of relief only highlights that there was some form of constant stress applied unto my ears. Consequently you'll pry my collection of (wired) earcans from my cold dead hands.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_reflex

Re: AirPods causing tinnitus?

#137

Post by hanniabu »

itsmartapuntocm wrote: post #114
fwlr wrote: post #98

Lifelong tinnitus sufferer here. The prevailing theory (edit: this is misleading, it is not the “prevailing theory”, I typed that without thinking. It is actually a new-ish/fringe-ish alternative to the actual prevailing theory of accumulated damage to ear fibers): The theory I subscribe to is that tinnitus is a breakdown of the ears’ and/or brain’s noise filtering and suppression mechanisms. Long-term use of white n…

Took me a long time to get over mine when I first got it. I think white noise, while a helpful temporary distraction, does ultimately become a crutch. Ultimately what helped me get over it was just letting myself hear it and ultimately making peace with it. It’s kind of ironic in that the “cure” is to train your brain to stop seeing as a threat the noise that it’s generating itself.

Yeah i imagine it being like how your brain ignores your nose, it will get used to the tinnitus and block it out over time. Likewise, the more you focus on it the harder it'll be to ignore it

Re: AirPods causing tinnitus?

#139

Post by krackers »

deergomoo wrote: post #135
bornfreddy wrote: post #112

This is my biggest reservation against using (any) noise cancelling headphones. IIUC, they work by emitting the same frequency sound, a bit delayed, which cancels the sound in the targeted place - but doubles its amplitude in vicinity, because this is how waves work (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). I can't imagine being blasted with a loud sound in the vicinity of our hearing organs is very healthy. Instead, I…

I’m no expert, but I thought they worked by destructive interference? i.e. they emit the opposite sound, and (providing they can match the amplitude) reduce the incoming wave to nothing, which is why we don’t hear anything.

That energy has to go somewhere. As I understand that resulting energy is mostly not directed towards the ear (probably as heat?). But tinnitus isn't purely physical, there are psychoacoustic mechanisms at play as well, which noise canceling might cause.

Re: AirPods causing tinnitus?

#140

Post by itsmartapuntocm »

hanniabu wrote: post #137
itsmartapuntocm wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Took me a long time to get over mine when I first got it. I think white noise, while a helpful temporary distraction, does ultimately become a crutch. Ultimately what helped me get over it was just letting myself hear it and ultimately making peace with it. It’s kind of ironic in that the “cure” is to train your brain to stop seeing as a threat the noise that it’s generating itself.

Yeah i imagine it being like how your brain ignores your nose, it will get used to the tinnitus and block it out over time. Likewise, the more you focus on it the harder it'll be to ignore it

It’s unfortunately a negative feedback loop at first. Hearing it causes you to stress about it, which makes it seem worse. That’s why stuff like white noise helps at first. But ultimately you need be comfortable with when you do hear it, which is the really hard part to come to terms with.
Post reply on HN