JEP 430: String Templates (Preview) Proposed to Target Java 21

Post by kaba0 » Sat, Mar 04, 2023, 9:14 AM UTC

sirsinsalot wrote: post #149

kaba0 wrote: post #127

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Your mileage may vary, but I went from liking simple languages like Java, to very expressive, complex ones (Scala, Haskell, Rust) back to Java. I mean, I like all those languages (and many more), but the thing is, most programs really don’t need all that many language features — an okayish type system, OOP for encapsulating private vs public state, and preferring immutable public APIs have served me well in almost ev…

It isn't often I see Java described as simple.

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 04, 2023, 9:52 AM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #143

tialaramex wrote: post #83

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Exceptions have implied control flow which makes them strictly worse than the Result types which are, as their name suggests, just types. Imagine if some other common types had unrelated features like this baked into them. Want a string? Sorry in my new language all the strings need their own separate thread for some reason. Actually sorry, I forgot, we're in a Java topic, Java actually did have features baked into t…

> Exceptions have implied control flow which makes them strictly worse than the Result types which are, as their name suggests, just types. There’s nothing wrong with implied control flow. > All of Java's user defined types insisted on living on the heap. Just want to make a pair of integers? Sorry, that's an Object now and so it lives on the heap, whereas just one integer is fine, those are just local stack variable…

Post by imtringued » Sat, Mar 04, 2023, 9:59 AM UTC

nunobrito wrote: post #126

cs02rm0 wrote: post #27

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I'm not a fan either. Java seems to be declining in prevalence in my corner of industry, I'm sure these changes are made by wiser minds than mine, but I'm sceptical about whether such a choice is really right for users.

I remain to be convinced and program daily in Java for a long time. It seems just as difficult to remember/useless as lambda expressions that look fine as vanity one-line expressions and then get difficult to write for most programmers. We don't really need vanity innovation in the Java world. I would have asked for priority on the FX replacement to Swing, or support for running on ESP32 IoT devices as replacement to…

Post by imtringued » Sat, Mar 04, 2023, 10:16 AM UTC

kaba0 wrote: post #133

rcoveson wrote: post #93

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> We could have unsigned integers but we're choosing not to because on the whole their disadvantages outweigh their advantages. You (collectively) have this wrong; C, C++, C#, Rust, Go, et al. have it right. As long as we're just stating our beliefs outright instead of justifying them, that is. (That's not a request to justify your opinion; I'm sure it's been argued to death already.) > security experts quite simply…

Java still sits very close to JVM byte code, which is typed - adding unsigned ints would duplicate a huge deal of instructions. So this feature has to wait for primitive classes, where it can be as simple as primitive class unsigned { int value; } (Though it would need operator overloading to be used as a+b, which is not really liked in Java designer niches (with many good reasons against it) :D )

Post by imtringued » Sat, Mar 04, 2023, 10:36 AM UTC

nezirus wrote: post #73

bcrosby95 wrote: post #58

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The database stuff looks like an example, and shows how you could extend the template system in a way that doesn't introduce security problems.

That is exactly the point, you should not use general string templating system for SQL queries, together with "roll your own" escape and validation mechanisms. I really don't see why they included that part, if not to show how to shoot yourself in the foot.