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EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

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Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#611
post #313

I can't quite wrap my head around why people think that it is a good thing for Apple to be regulated into "opening up" (i.e. as opposed to being a "walled garden" platform). If I were an entrepreneur, and say that I wanted to fork a Unix-like OS so that I could make a cross-device OS for consumer hardware that I, too, make---shouldn't I have the right to program my OS to seamlessly integrate only with the apps and th…

If you are starting to corner the market and are able to use your leverage to block competitors in a way that threatens to undermine their business, then the EU (and to an extend the USA) will regulate you. I can flip your question around and ask "should you have the right to play dirty?". Which is what Apple has been doing, there's exactly zero good reason to not license out access to the protocol. I don't own Apple…

Barely anyone has an iPhone, it’s not even remotely close to a monopoly.

I would like a practical way to have a single chat app on all my devices, some of which Apple makes.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#612
post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m taking the leap that you’re from the US - if you’re not, then the first comment may not apply to you. > bodies like the EU (led by appointment, not elected politicians) decide on technical standards The president of the United States is not directly elected.They are voted by the electoral college, which introduces all the problems of gerrymandering. EU council are appointed - by politicians from each country, dir…

I’m from the U.K. which is why I care deeply about representative democracy. Our system has stood the test of time. You criticise companies for “refusing to work with others” on messaging. Why should companies be forced into a cartel-like relationship with each other? Surely innovation absolutely depends on companies independently creating new technologies and benefiting from that R&D directly? How can consumers have…

The UK’s “democracy” is a joke. Between an unelected head of state, first past the post and the most corrupt financial system on earth, almost any country does better.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people here enjoy seeing big tech companies "owned" by big governments Absolutely. These corporations laugh all the way to the bank as they destroy our privacy and exploit us for profit with surveillance capitalism, destroy our computer freedoms with hardware cryptography only they have the keys for, pollute our web with unending advertising and annoyances driven by "engagement engineering". Someone really ought to…

Apple didn't destroy our privacy. The others, this law is trying to force interaction with, not just did, but actively and aggressively do. To the point that Brian Acton of WhatsApp walked away from a billion dollars and donated $50M to Signal rather that watch it happen.

> Apple didn't destroy our privacy.

Tell that to its threats to do client side scanning on what's supposed to be our devices. The fact they can even get away with even suggesting such crap points to the fact their crimes are a lot worse and more fundamental than privacy violations: they destroyed our fundamental computer freedoms by denying us the capability to run or not run whatever software we want. Under Apple and its peers, we are oppressed at a fundamental level by being forced to accept whatever bullshit whims a corporation decides to impose upon us with a software update. They have the keys to the machine, they determine what code it runs and doesn't run.

> The others, this law is trying to force interaction with, not just did, but actively and aggressively do.

They are not excused either. They should be sanctioned even harder until they cease and desist all exploitative behavior.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#614
post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But they absoltely didn't have them, and if they attempted to exercize them as if they had them, they'd be ignored, prevented, beaten up, or worse. Our disagreement is that you think a right is something granted by the law and inability to excecise a right means you don't have it. A right simply means there is a valid justification to allow a person to do not do something. You can have a right and it can unjustly b…

> Our disagreement is that you think a right is something granted by the law and inability to excecise a right means you don't have it. A right simply means there is a valid justification to allow a person to do not do something. You can have a right and it can unjustly be taken from you. Without a law granting/protecting your right to X, or at least the power to grant it to yourself and enforce it, you don't have a…

> Some wise document written by founding fathers? Sorry, we don't believe in those things in these here parts. It needs to be based on either law or a body (could be "the people") that can force it into law.

This is actually false. Our founding fathers very much were not settled on where rights originated. Some believed, like GP do, that rights are innate and that it's the responsibility of a government to try and protect common ones. Others believed, like you, that rights need to be enumerated. One of the arguments against enumeration is that such a list could be used, as you are trying to do, as a mechanism to exclude rights not officially listed or known or conceived of at the time, which could lead to unintended oppression.

Should the government have innate power to oppress by omission? Are laws an allow list or a deny list? Does the government only get the power we the people grant it, or does it get every power we don't specifically reserve for ourselves? Neither position is absolutely correct. That's why we have courts and process. But the scales tend to tip towards the government only only being allowed power we cede to it, not the reverse.

Here's a relevant example: consider freedom of thought. Western governments generally do not explicitly codify such a concept. But we practically universally believe that human beings are afforded the the privacy of their mind. After all we're allowed to express ourselves freely and all our laws are designed to punish actions. The bill of rights was created at a time when it was impossible to know the nature of someone's thoughts, so this question was preposterous. But it's becoming possible now to capture an image of one's thoughts. If we could use that information to discriminate, it's very sane to imagine a self-serving bureaucracy would try to. So how do you establish your right to think in a society where it's innately oppressed by virtue of not being explicitly granted? See: civil disobedience.

I agree with your position but not with your rhetoric.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#615
post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EU has just decided that this half billion of consumers will be downgraded to the third world standard of living (google "Fit for 55") "Fit for 55 is a package by the European Union designed to reduce the European Union's greenhouse gas emissions by 55% by 2030." I call bullshit on your statement.

The only way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 55% is to push everyone into poverty, basically. Make the car ownership too expensive for common folks, as well as meat consumption, buying new clothes, heating your apartment in winter, air travel, and more.

Why wouldn’t massive buildout of nuclear energy plants allow hitting that greenhouse emission goal while simultaneously tripling the amount of power used per person?

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#616
post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so. I haven't read the EU documents and the article doesn't say, but you can do this without forcing a company to adopt anything. Let's say I propose this rule: Apple must publish the iMessage spec and allow other services to send/receive iMessages. That doesn't force Apple or anyone else to implement any specific feature, beyond allowing others to send/receive messages. WhatsApp or Signal could decide…

You're forcing Apple to carry/send/receive messages for their direct competitors. Apple obviously subsidizes the cost of iMessage currently from their iPhone sales. A workaround could be charging users a monthly rate to connect to their servers I suppose. But that seems like it would maybe defeat the point a little?

> Apple obviously subsidizes the cost of iMessage currently from their iPhone sales.

Yes, and that kind of anticompetitive behavior is what the EU is trying to curb.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#617
post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 55% is to push everyone into poverty, basically. Make the car ownership too expensive for common folks, as well as meat consumption, buying new clothes, heating your apartment in winter, air travel, and more.

Why wouldn’t massive buildout of nuclear energy plants allow hitting that greenhouse emission goal while simultaneously tripling the amount of power used per person?

Tell me you don't understand the distinction between U235 and U238 without telling me you don't understand the distinction between U235 and U238

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn’t massive buildout of nuclear energy plants allow hitting that greenhouse emission goal while simultaneously tripling the amount of power used per person?

Tell me you don't understand the distinction between U235 and U238 without telling me you don't understand the distinction between U235 and U238

That's an extremely uncharitable and snarky answer given the open-ended nature of my question.

Thorium reactors don't use either and a fusion reactor wouldn't involve any isotope of uranium. Others may disagree, but I don't think it's a forgone conclusion that all R&D in nuclear energy grinds to a halt.

I disagree with the GP's claim that poverty is "the only way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 55%."

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me you don't understand the distinction between U235 and U238 without telling me you don't understand the distinction between U235 and U238

That's an extremely uncharitable and snarky answer given the open-ended nature of my question. Thorium reactors don't use either and a fusion reactor wouldn't involve any isotope of uranium. Others may disagree, but I don't think it's a forgone conclusion that all R&D in nuclear energy grinds to a halt. I disagree with the GP's claim that poverty is "the only way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 55%."

No scifi nuclear reactor concept is going to be mass deployed by the early 2030s. The only nuclear fuel source that has ever been used in commercial application is U235, with a little bit of Pu239 to boost yield. There is no viable source of U235 for even a fraction of current energy use.

OP's claim is garbage (insulation, ending car dependency, and legislating products that aren't landfill help the poor rather than hindering them), but the constant nuclear shilling and shilling for growth is much worse.

Re: EU will require Apple to open up iMessage (2022)

#620
post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GDPR doesn’t say anything really about cookies, actually. I think you meant ePrivacy. I meant GDPR. It's the reason why websites have to get consent if they want to track you. I believe you're right that it doesn't mention cookies though, I don't believe it cares about what technology is used for tracking. > Edit: by the way no modern website uses cookies to maintain your shopping cart, and instead of relying on a…

No, you’re wrong. It’s ePrivacy. GDPR set the framework, ePrivaxy has largely superseded. Actually, I do use privacy mode at all times. The only hindrance is the need to recredential. I have a password manager that auto fills those forms in. It works great, and is better security overall. My cookies database shouldn’t be equivalent to a password file, and I don’t carry around a pile of spammy cookies handing them out…

I'm happy you're happy with your workaround.
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