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Anxiety can be created by the body, mouse heart study suggests

nature.com

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Re: Anxiety can be created by the body, mouse heart study suggests

#81
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. Nicotine can produce that intense relaxation. But why take a toxin for what you can get with just your body and some intelligent practices? All upside. Except it takes effort! :) But the longer term effects are way better for yoga than nicotine. Those two paths diverge pretty quickly by a lot I think.

Nicotine is only toxic in high doses, which naturally greatly exceed that which you get from a patch. You could say the same thing about basically anything; say someone recommended eating a banana to cure cramps. Potassium is also toxic in high doses. I agree yoga is a great practice but that doesn’t exclude the beneficial effects nicotine can provide. For example, I can chew nicotine gum during exams but I can’t do…

For example, I can chew nicotine gum during exams but I can’t do yoga.

But if you're doing yoga the benefits extend in time far beyond the session. So say you're doing hatha yoga 3 times a week. You're going to be relaxed and calm; your nervous system is going to be more resilient to stress; You're going to be more focused; you're going to sleep better and need less sleep -- for that whole week. So the "half-life" is a lot longer compared to nicotine.

Nicotine is only toxic in high doses

But also...acutely toxic at high doses. It's still a toxin at low doses. And I wouldn't say how it's giving you the relaxation it is healthy for you at low doses. But yoga is.

Re: Anxiety can be created by the body, mouse heart study suggests

#82

Yes that's why yoga is so good at calming you down and making you healthy. It soothes and calms the parasympathetic nervous system, and helps relieve and release many held tensions in the body. It's no good just to do meditation and calm your mind if your body and nervous system is still holding on to so much stress. The body remembers many things and "embodies" many emotions. You can notice this if you do part-by-pa…

That’s actually not what the paper is saying. It’s only comparing heart rate changes to anxiety.

Haha :) This is not a summary of the paper. This is how it relates to something you can use to be healthy now.

Re: Anxiety can be created by the body, mouse heart study suggests

#83

Yes that's why yoga is so good at calming you down and making you healthy. It soothes and calms the parasympathetic nervous system, and helps relieve and release many held tensions in the body. It's no good just to do meditation and calm your mind if your body and nervous system is still holding on to so much stress. The body remembers many things and "embodies" many emotions. You can notice this if you do part-by-pa…

> It's no good just to do meditation and calm your mind if your body and nervous system is still holding on to so much stress. I just want to point out that for nearly all of its history yoga is primarily about meditation, with the asanas being preliminary, quickly covered material in most classic texts. The Yoga Sutras of Patañjali are a good reference for anyone curious (though the sections on the siddhis is... int…

Exactly. Was created to support meditation. But doesn't mean you have to meditation. You can get the benefits without it...although maybe not the magical powers! Haha. Although...the postures are pretty powerful! :)

Re: Anxiety can be created by the body, mouse heart study suggests

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a wild package. You are dealing with a lot. I hope you are able to step back and give yourself credit once in a while for dealing with so much. The world is full of secret superheroes, mustering up a lot of strength and ingenuity to get through their days. You are one of them. No bipolar here but for years I struggled with asthma for years. It is quite the addition to the whole anxiety mix. It definitely took…

> The world is full of secret superheroes, mustering up a lot of strength and ingenuity to get through their days. I know you mean well, but I don't like being thought of as a superhero. It defines me by my limitations and hold me up as something exceptional. I actually find this to be quite harmful. :( Consider this: I only need to be exceptional because society would not allow me to be successful otherwise. There a…

Damn, I meant the opposite - I just wanted to recognize the struggle. But that's no excuse. Neither is the fact that I have disabilities as well. I'm very, very sorry and extremely appreciative that you took the time to explain that. I owe you.

Re: Anxiety can be created by the body, mouse heart study suggests

#85

People with anxiety could have told you this :)

Exactly. I have anxiety and panic attacks. When my heart beats faster for whatever reason, it triggers anxiety and in more extreme cases, panic attack. It's kind of obvious, really.

Breathing techniques can control the heart i think, 3 seconds inhale hold 3 seconds 3 second exhsle hold 3 second

Re: Anxiety can be created by the body, mouse heart study suggests

#86
post #62
post #34

So obvious that it makes you question the effectiveness of medical research. The association between mitral valve prolapse and anxiety is well-known. However this physical difference is completely ignored when it's mild. In the general population, mild prolapse is seen as a common thing. However there are also diseases caused by genetic mutations which cause both mitral valve changes and also a whole set of body prob…

> So obvious that it makes you question the effectiveness of medical research. The point of medical research - especially the kind that seems obvious - is not just to discover new things, but to confirm what we think is obvious really, indeed, is obvious, and this isn't always the conclusion of such research.

Yes, I know the aim of medical research, you're right there. However it also has trouble confirming obvious things over decades. Medicine is a tough problem for sure.

Re: Anxiety can be created by the body, mouse heart study suggests

#87

> It’s possible, he says, that this heart–brain loop evolved to help animals process danger signals more quickly: when the animal sees a potential threat, even before the brain can fully process what the situation means, the heart rate rises, essentially telling the brain that it should be worried. I suppose, but how does the information about danger get from the eyes to the heart to the brain faster than from the ey…

Brain is still in charge - I think the key is bypassing consciousness and reacting sub-consciously. Which makes sense, your body will starts releasing adrenaline before you ever think "oh no!"

Right, but it seems like the eyes can plug straight to the unconscious parts of the brain more easily that a Rube Goldberg connection via messages to the heart and back again. Like, whatever connection there is from the eyes to the heart is going to go via the spinal cord anyway. It could stop off and tell the brainstem on the way down.

Re: Anxiety can be created by the body, mouse heart study suggests

#88

I didn't even know that this was a matter of debate. I had moderately serious heart problem (atrial murmur, sort of the less-serious cousin of afib/atrial fibrilation) and it was extremely clear to me that whatever was happening in my chest was also directly spiking my feelings of anxiety. To be clear, I mean a direct heart->anxiety link, as opposed to "I'm thinking about my heart problem and therefore my anxiety is…

>Cardiogenic control of affective behavioural state

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-05748-8

Re: Anxiety can be created by the body, mouse heart study suggests

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hehe. The linguist has identified a distinction. Whatever works for you: maybe some stimulation, maybe some relaxation. :) We calm it and maybe it isn't active. We stimulate it and then it's relaxing us. I see what you're saying. Is there another side to it? Isn't calm and soothed a form of stimulation? An active, easy coherence? Maybe we don't want to be over-stimulated. Stimulated in the right way creates coherence…

I would argue that the verb forms of calm and sooth connote stimulation, whereas the adjective form of calm might be a lack of stimuli. I'm not sure there is a present tense adjective form of sooth? But certainly one might say, "this music is very calming" so in that case the stimulus is causing the non-stimulated (by my definition) state... Offsetting the anxiety causing stimuli? I am neither a linguist nor a medica…

Haha! Yes, I’m sure. Very clever, very smart. Good thought :D ;p xx

Re: Anxiety can be created by the body, mouse heart study suggests

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the non-scientific explanation is that with conditions such as anxiety and chronic stress it's consistently engaged, but only slightly (like background noise). You need to fully stimulate it for it to relax afterwards. That can also be accomplished with breathing exercises, ice baths, etc.

The parasympathetic nervous system is a control mechanism over the sympathetic nervous system. When the latter is stimulated, you become anxious and excited. When the former is stimulated, it tamps down on the latter, causing you to relax. Either one or the other is active. “Relaxing” the parasympathetic system would therefore free the sympathetic nervous system to activate more strongly, thereby making you more anxi…

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