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Ford Hires 550 Former Argo.ai Engineers, Creates Latitude.ai

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Re: Ford Hires 550 Former Argo.ai Engineers, Creates Latitude.ai

#101

Post by kryptiskt »

jnsie wrote: post #14
Tuna-Fish wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly they wanted to restart the company without the external partners (mainly VW)?

Maybe but there's got to be a less expensive way of doing that. Buying VW's stake?

Realizing a loss isn't bad, it only recognizes that money you have already spent is lost, it doesn't actually cost you anything and it's a nice tax write-off. If you can do that and you get to get keep the engineers, why not do that instead of keeping some fictional value for it on your balance sheet?

Re: Ford Hires 550 Former Argo.ai Engineers, Creates Latitude.ai

#103

Post by bob_theslob646 »

mvf4z7 wrote: post #42
jdhn wrote: post #36

I wish Ford the best of luck. The last time I worked at Ford AV, there wasn't a clear sense of direction after the initial kickoff project that was done to publicize Argo's AV chops. Hopefully this will have a better ending than that initial attempt.

Jonathan, is that you?

Are you attempting to dox someone on purpose?

Re: Ford Hires 550 Former Argo.ai Engineers, Creates Latitude.ai

#104

Post by aimkey »

binoct wrote: post #79
the_mar wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably strugglins with zipper merges, unprotected turns, and inclement weather… … so same

Not to say challenges don’t remain, but it’s undeniable the technology has come a long way in the last few years. https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=318&v=aj8TRtr64xQ

You fell for the boondoggle. Waymo has a very narrow set of routes you can take. They collect ultra HD maps for those routes in SF which has a completely unsustainable human labor cost. It doesn’t scale to “drive me on any road”. Waymo is localized-only driving funded at a major loss by a search ads monopoly.

Cruise does the same, just with VC money (and weird low-traffic hours of operation).

They have not solved driving in the generic sense and they are fooling you (and investors)

Re: Ford Hires 550 Former Argo.ai Engineers, Creates Latitude.ai

#105

Post by helsinkiandrew »

p1esk wrote: post #9
roseway4 wrote: post #6

Not mentioned here, but in this Techcrunch article, is Ford’s expensive flip-flopping on AV: https://techcrunch.com/2023/03/02/ford-forms-automated-drivi... > Argo AI burst on the scene in 2017 stacked with a $1 billion investment from Ford — and Iater an investment from VW. The startup shuttered suddenly in October 2022 after Ford and VW determined they would no longer pursue AV technology, at least not under the Ar…

Wait, so they killed the 550 person AV startup they were funding, took 2.7B loss, and 4 months later hired those same 550 people to resume the same work? Something looks seriously wrong here.

They killed the 1700 person company they part owned/controlled with VW and then hired 550 engineers directly.

If Argo.ai wasn't going in the direction they need for Fords products they could either get full control or kill it and hire the engineers. The latter might be more risky but is probably cheaper than buying, reorganising and making people redundant.

The 2.7B was already spent - they've just moved it from 'investment' to 'losses' in their accounting

Re: Ford Hires 550 Former Argo.ai Engineers, Creates Latitude.ai

#106

Post by xhkkffbf »

lostlogin wrote: post #75
luckylion wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference in keeping the same 550 people working under the old name with a $2.7bn cost sunk into it, and just acknowledging the $2.7bn as a loss and moving the 550 people to work under a different name. It's not like the name was a significant part of their product and they'd now have to spend a similar amount to get to a similar stage in their research and development, is it?

Firing them hiring is a long way from free. Then add in the company start up costs and legal fees etc. Maybe I’m the mug, but that seems wasted money. When you are burning billions, the costs listed above seem to be treated as a rounding error.

It actually could be pretty lucrative. Not only have they gotten VW out of the mix, but they can renegotiate the salaries and stock options again. The market for talent is very, very different now. And all of those old options that the Argo people took during their first n years? They're now worthless so the management doesn't have to share ownership with them either.

This could have been entirely driven by business considerations.

Re: Ford Hires 550 Former Argo.ai Engineers, Creates Latitude.ai

#108

Post by qznc »

willvarfar wrote: post #100
shjake wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porsche is the majority shareholder in VW and VW itself owns 75% of Porsche (100% before the IPO)

Wait, what?! How can you have cycles in an ownership graph? Ah, answering my own question, it seems to be called "circular ownership" and while it can sometimes occur from a long history of mergers and acquisitions (Samsung seems to be such a case), its generally a tax dodge or to mask ownership? At least, the top hits I see are all talking about it as a classic way to obscure oligarch ownership and things. Genuinely…

One important part of the answer is that there are two „Porsches“, a holding and a car manufacturer. It is also complicated though and there is much speculation who has how much influence.

Re: Ford Hires 550 Former Argo.ai Engineers, Creates Latitude.ai

#109

Post by eganist »

smcl wrote: post #102
eganist wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

North of 700 TC* *Anecdata

What does that mean?

700k total comp, so probably between 150-300k base salary, 50k bonus, and the rest in stock comp, usually vesting in batches over four years.

Anecdata just means anecdotal data, i.e data points I know from people personally but not a representative sample.

Re: Ford Hires 550 Former Argo.ai Engineers, Creates Latitude.ai

#110

Post by smcl »

eganist wrote: post #109
smcl wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that mean?

700k total comp, so probably between 150-300k base salary, 50k bonus, and the rest in stock comp, usually vesting in batches over four years. Anecdata just means anecdotal data, i.e data points I know from people personally but not a representative sample.

Ahhh thanks! I figured "TC" was "total compensation" but wasn't sure how to interpret 700 since $700k/yr seemed enormous, but if it's salary for a year plus a chunk of stock that vests over a few years that makes more sense.
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