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Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

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Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#111

Post by realjhol »

HyperSane wrote: post #55
tauwauwau wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moral judgement in international relations is not a necessity. Please think of other countries that US is allies which with same attributes mentioned in your comments. i.e. Saudi Arabia. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, what I do mean is there are different rules for engagement between countries than people.

"Moral judgement in international relations is not a necessity." Does this apply to Germany during WWII?

Both the UK and America targeted their bombs at civilians. This childish good vs. evil boomer narrative needs to die

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#112

Post by nlowell »

ajross wrote: post #108
jeffbee wrote: post #106

At this point "Tesla says it will do..." is virtually without meaning. Historically this means either they will never do it, or they are catching up to the industry, or it's something their supplier already does for everyone.

Is it? Or is that just hyperbole? I mean, they announced every product they do deliver too, and they're selling a lot of objectively very successful products. I just don't understand the hate around this company. It's not enough to criticize, people need to deploy stuff like "virtually without meaning", or "will never do it". I mean, can't they just be like any other company that spins a bit with their product announ…

Musk has said that one of his companies will give paraplegics the ability to walk again. He's overstated and overhyped the autonomous driving capabilities a million times as well.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#113

Post by KaiserPro »

brookst wrote: post #104
hulitu wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are any other manufacturers pushing as hard here? Why would they. Most of those things are not sustainable. You don't want alluminium wires in your car.

> You don't want alluminium wires in your car Why not? I^2*r says that running 75% less current will generate 94% less heat. Existing copper wires would be a disaster if cars ran on a 3V system. Aluminum at 48V will be fine, as long as it’s sized appropriately the same way copper is today.

> Why not? I^2*r says that running 75% less current will generate 94% less heat.

Thats not the argument, you can do that now with copper cables.

Aluminium is a good conductor, but it is reactive, brittle and not as malleable as copper.

also, copper has almost half the resistance per meter than aluminium. So even for solid bus bars, it doesn't make that much sense, unless you have structural bus bars.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#114

Post by linsomniac »

hulitu wrote: post #59
schiffern wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>just as newer battery chemistries moved away from cobalt Tesla seems to be the leader here. Per Investor Day[0] and other sources, they - developed low-cobalt and low-nickel cathodes, to reduce scarce battery metals - increased overall vehicle efficiency to allow iron cathodes which are earth-abundant - consolidated electronic modules to reduce microchips and wiring - are soon switching to 48V, to further reduce low…

> Are any other manufacturers pushing as hard here? Why would they. Most of those things are not sustainable. You don't want alluminium wires in your car.

>You don't want alluminium wires in your car.

Why not?

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#115

Post by [deleted] »

manuelmoreale wrote: post #83
bigtex wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have they delivered the robotaxis that were promised several years ago?

I don’t see why that’s relevant with the topic of reducing consumption of certain rare elements. Then failing at some of the goals shouldn’t detract from what has been accomplished. And if the end result is just electric cars that don’t use rara elements I think that’s a good thing, even without robotaxis

[deleted]

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#116

Post by nordsieck »

jm4 wrote: post #94
manuelmoreale wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see why that’s relevant with the topic of reducing consumption of certain rare elements. Then failing at some of the goals shouldn’t detract from what has been accomplished. And if the end result is just electric cars that don’t use rara elements I think that’s a good thing, even without robotaxis

I assume that the relevance is that Tesla's claims don't count for much until they actually deliver. Elon Musk has a long history of misleading people about Tesla. Whether it's embellishment, overestimation of what they can accomplish, or outright lies is up for debate, but the fact remains that they habitually over-promise and under-deliver. I consider him and his companies to be completely untrustworthy. He could b…

> Elon Musk has a long history of misleading people about Tesla. Whether it's embellishment, overestimation of what they can accomplish, or outright lies is up for debate, but the fact remains that they habitually over-promise and under-deliver.

I think that everyone should look on his "forward looking statements" with a higher than normal degree of skepticism. He does seem to pull off a lot of outlandish stuff, though, so it doesn't pay to be too skeptical.

> I consider him and his companies to be completely untrustworthy. He could be selling water in the desert and I still would never buy another thing from him.

I don't think that that same level of skepticism is warranted towards his statements about what is true today. But then again, I haven't been following him very closely, so maybe his pant are constantly on fire.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#117

Post by a4isms »

ajross wrote: post #108
jeffbee wrote: post #106

At this point "Tesla says it will do..." is virtually without meaning. Historically this means either they will never do it, or they are catching up to the industry, or it's something their supplier already does for everyone.

Is it? Or is that just hyperbole? I mean, they announced every product they do deliver too, and they're selling a lot of objectively very successful products. I just don't understand the hate around this company. It's not enough to criticize, people need to deploy stuff like "virtually without meaning", or "will never do it". I mean, can't they just be like any other company that spins a bit with their product announ…

> spins a bit

The letter's "a," "b,", "i," and "t" are doing enough heavy lifting to threaten SpaceX's business model.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#118

Post by DennisP »

paxys wrote: post #46
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

Why this is important: If successful, this contributes towards the reduction of national security risk around rare earth supplies and supply chain located in a possibly unfriendly nation state (major deposits are in Russia and China) and also means you don’t have to establish rare earth mines or supply chains in your own countries (capital and environmental concerns). It’s a big deal! Also, just as newer battery chem…

It's weird though that they are reducing reliance on China for rare earth elements while simultaneously increasing their reliance on China for manufacturing.

Increasing reliance how? They do have a factory in China, but they're building their next one in Mexico.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#119

Post by manuelmoreale »

jm4 wrote: post #94
manuelmoreale wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see why that’s relevant with the topic of reducing consumption of certain rare elements. Then failing at some of the goals shouldn’t detract from what has been accomplished. And if the end result is just electric cars that don’t use rara elements I think that’s a good thing, even without robotaxis

I assume that the relevance is that Tesla's claims don't count for much until they actually deliver. Elon Musk has a long history of misleading people about Tesla. Whether it's embellishment, overestimation of what they can accomplish, or outright lies is up for debate, but the fact remains that they habitually over-promise and under-deliver. I consider him and his companies to be completely untrustworthy. He could b…

Reading the original post, I assumed all of the things listed (except for one) are things that has been done already and not just promised by Elon. Buy maybe I’m wrong.

Re: Tesla's next-gen electric motors will get rid of rare earth elements

#120

Post by jeffbee »

ajross wrote: post #108
jeffbee wrote: post #106

At this point "Tesla says it will do..." is virtually without meaning. Historically this means either they will never do it, or they are catching up to the industry, or it's something their supplier already does for everyone.

Is it? Or is that just hyperbole? I mean, they announced every product they do deliver too, and they're selling a lot of objectively very successful products. I just don't understand the hate around this company. It's not enough to criticize, people need to deploy stuff like "virtually without meaning", or "will never do it". I mean, can't they just be like any other company that spins a bit with their product announ…

I do not hate Tesla. It's just a plain fact that their announcements don't carry information. They might do it, or they might not, and the press release gives us no additional reason to believe either way.

But the specific form of this announcement is industry catch-up. Other makes already ship zero-rare-earth motors to the mass market, and Tesla did itself in the past.

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