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How Can A Free Conference Call Be Free?

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Re: How Can A Free Conference Call Be Free?

#11

Post by FfejL »

danso wrote: post #7

Pretty fascinating...the OP describes the regulation as "outdated"...but are there rural companies that depend on it? Or is it truly outdated and due for a change?

It's outdated in the sense that the original reason for the high fees was to make it economically viable to provide service to people in rural areas. But the original sunk costs of wiring every home and business have long been paid off, and the digital-ization of the phone network has drastically reduced the ongoing costs of providing service to those folks. So it's outdated.

On the other hand, there are plenty of local CLECs in rural areas that make money from these fees, and they continue to lobby hard to keep the tarriffs and fees as they are.

So it's both, really.

Re: How Can A Free Conference Call Be Free?

#13

Post by sp332 »

stanleydrew wrote: post #9

This is all true. One technicality though is that Google Voice is not a VOIP solution (yet) which is why the fight with ATT over terminating rural calls is interesting.

Google Voice is not a VOIP solution

Isn't it? I can make calls from my laptop microphone. What else do you need to be VOIP?

Re: How Can A Free Conference Call Be Free?

#14

Post by untog »

sp332 wrote: post #13
stanleydrew wrote: post #9

This is all true. One technicality though is that Google Voice is not a VOIP solution (yet) which is why the fight with ATT over terminating rural calls is interesting.

Google Voice is not a VOIP solution Isn't it? I can make calls from my laptop microphone. What else do you need to be VOIP?

I think the clarification is that it is not just a VOIP service. If I call someone with my Android phone it is routed through normal voice call paths, not as a VOIP call.

Re: How Can A Free Conference Call Be Free?

#15

Post by BrandonSmith »

FfejL wrote: post #11
danso wrote: post #7

Pretty fascinating...the OP describes the regulation as "outdated"...but are there rural companies that depend on it? Or is it truly outdated and due for a change?

It's outdated in the sense that the original reason for the high fees was to make it economically viable to provide service to people in rural areas. But the original sunk costs of wiring every home and business have long been paid off, and the digital-ization of the phone network has drastically reduced the ongoing costs of providing service to those folks. So it's outdated. On the other hand, there are plenty of lo…

Further, the phone call itself does not have to physically terminate in the locality the rate center represents. For instance, a free conference calling service's VoIP servers may be hosted anywhere (e.g. AWS), not necessarily in Iowa. Thus, the reason the Telecommunications Act of 1996 provided for this type of compensation is non-existant in this type of VoIP scenario.

Re: How Can A Free Conference Call Be Free?

#16

Post by jballanc »

Bear with me here, but it seems to me like this is a good argument for socialism.

Consider: why do termination fees exist? Clearly, as America was being wired with telephone service, the cost to run lines to rural areas was prohibitively expensive. So what's the capitalist/Randian thing to do? Well, charge more for phone service out there. If people can't afford it, then they'll move to where it is cheaper to have a phone line, right?

Except you have to consider why people would live in these rural areas to begin with. For a large number of individuals, they are probably farmers (or involved in food production). If they have to pay higher rates for phone lines, then they would have to raise the price of food to make living in rural areas viable. But there's obviously a really big incentive to the government and everyone that's not living in rural areas to not have the cost of food increase. So what does America do?

To remain somewhat loyal to pristine capitalist ideas, America decides that it's going to let competition and corporate interests resolve the issue, but to make things "fair", the government will put its finger on the scales, just a bit. Unfortunately, when you forget to take your finger off the scales, then you end up with AT&T spending $250mil unnecessarily!

Efficiency of the market, eh?

Of course, a more socialist-leaning country would've just had the government pay to install rural phone lines.

Re: How Can A Free Conference Call Be Free?

#17

Post by funkah »

jballanc wrote: post #16

Bear with me here, but it seems to me like this is a good argument for socialism. Consider: why do termination fees exist? Clearly, as America was being wired with telephone service, the cost to run lines to rural areas was prohibitively expensive. So what's the capitalist/Randian thing to do? Well, charge more for phone service out there. If people can't afford it, then they'll move to where it is cheaper to have a…

And a libertarian would count this as yet another instance where government intervention causes problems.

To a worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish.

Re: How Can A Free Conference Call Be Free?

#18

Post by VMG »

jballanc wrote: post #16

Bear with me here, but it seems to me like this is a good argument for socialism. Consider: why do termination fees exist? Clearly, as America was being wired with telephone service, the cost to run lines to rural areas was prohibitively expensive. So what's the capitalist/Randian thing to do? Well, charge more for phone service out there. If people can't afford it, then they'll move to where it is cheaper to have a…

So a government acts socialist, distorts the market, causes damage, and you think this is an argument for more socialism?

All starting from the unwarranted assumption that telephone access was necessary to farmers and food prices would have risen dramatically.

Re: How Can A Free Conference Call Be Free?

#19

Post by pat2man »

jballanc wrote: post #16

Bear with me here, but it seems to me like this is a good argument for socialism. Consider: why do termination fees exist? Clearly, as America was being wired with telephone service, the cost to run lines to rural areas was prohibitively expensive. So what's the capitalist/Randian thing to do? Well, charge more for phone service out there. If people can't afford it, then they'll move to where it is cheaper to have a…

This may have been a good idea back in the day but the problem with social policies like this is that they are very hard to change. Now that we have few farmers living out in rural areas and food prices are cheap, us city people are in fact subsidizing the living costs of those living in the country.

Its not just phone lines but also streets, post offices, etc. The overall efficiency of city living is much higher but due to policies like this we don't end up getting lower phone bills or pay less for our roads.

I don't believe that telecom companies should be completely unregulated but policies like this are an example of socialist policies that can decrease overall efficiency.

Re: How Can A Free Conference Call Be Free?

#20

Post by SoftwareMaven »

FfejL wrote: post #11
danso wrote: post #7

Pretty fascinating...the OP describes the regulation as "outdated"...but are there rural companies that depend on it? Or is it truly outdated and due for a change?

It's outdated in the sense that the original reason for the high fees was to make it economically viable to provide service to people in rural areas. But the original sunk costs of wiring every home and business have long been paid off, and the digital-ization of the phone network has drastically reduced the ongoing costs of providing service to those folks. So it's outdated. On the other hand, there are plenty of lo…

The maintenance of those (very long) lines is not free. However, if these local companies can do this, they are obviously receiving more than they need for that.

In any event, do cell phones make this whole model pointless (or are there similar ways to encourage building towers in the middle of nowhere)?

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