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Banning words won’t make the world more just

theatlantic.com

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Re: Banning words won’t make the world more just

#291
post #272

The Sierra Club guide is hilarious: https://www.sierraclub.org/sites/default/files/sce-authors/u... . > People of color” has in the past served as a collective term for people who are not white. A preferred term today is “BIPOC” referring to Black, Indigenous and people of color, which provides a unifying term for ease of use while still acknowledging the reality that Black and Indigenous people in the United States…

Are you aghast at the number of points? It’s referring to two points from “The Chicago Guide to Grammar, Usage, and Punctuation”, which is understandably (I hope), a large (and respected!) guide.

Yes, that went over my head.

Re: Banning words won’t make the world more just

#292

The pendulum is swinging back because equity language censors took this way way too far. People-first language ("enslaved people" not "slaves") makes complete sense to me, but making a big fuss about how common English idioms like being "blind to a problem" is somehow offensive is going to earn you nothing but eyerolls from nearly everyone. Some of these, like "grandfathering", cannot even be understood without deep…

> For my partner's entire pregnancy, our providers only referred to "birthing people" Calling my wife a "birthing person" just made her feel like some gross vessel for having a baby. We purposefully chose providers that didn't use that language. "Chestfeeding" is another one that's cropping up and makes zero sense. Men have breasts, so breastfeeding is already gender-neutral. But it's seen as female-centric so out th…

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Re: Banning words won’t make the world more just

#293

The pendulum is swinging back because equity language censors took this way way too far. People-first language ("enslaved people" not "slaves") makes complete sense to me, but making a big fuss about how common English idioms like being "blind to a problem" is somehow offensive is going to earn you nothing but eyerolls from nearly everyone. Some of these, like "grandfathering", cannot even be understood without deep…

> For example, it seems like we can't say "mother" anymore in medical settings.

Well, that's entirely up to you and me isn't it?

I think what bothers me is not so much the word police (ignore them) but everyone else that allow them to set the agenda.

I talk the way I've talked my entire life and I don't care what people think about it.

Re: Banning words won’t make the world more just

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love reading this stuff to figure out what new words elite white people have for me. Apparently I’m not a “minority” or a “naturalized citizen” anymore, and my kids aren’t “second generation Americans.”

I'm involved in local politics in Oak Park, IL, also known as the People's Republic of Oak Park, 85.5% Clinton in '16, 72% college educated, median income about $15k higher than Evanston, and I have never heard any of these words in the elite white conversations I am continually dragged into. These guides get published to give The Groups something to do. Very few people in the real world --- yes, even the elite white…

It’s definitely “in the real world” here in DC, especially in the legal profession. This is where Sierra Club is, after all.

Re: Banning words won’t make the world more just

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For my partner's entire pregnancy, our providers only referred to "birthing people" Calling my wife a "birthing person" just made her feel like some gross vessel for having a baby. We purposefully chose providers that didn't use that language. "Chestfeeding" is another one that's cropping up and makes zero sense. Men have breasts, so breastfeeding is already gender-neutral. But it's seen as female-centric so out th…

Our entire group of animals is named after tits: Mammals. How can referring to the fact people have what our entire branch of the tree of life is named after be offensive?

...Probably better not to point that out, or next thing you know we're gonna have to rewrite damn near every textbook...

Re: Banning words won’t make the world more just

#296

The pendulum is swinging back because equity language censors took this way way too far. People-first language ("enslaved people" not "slaves") makes complete sense to me, but making a big fuss about how common English idioms like being "blind to a problem" is somehow offensive is going to earn you nothing but eyerolls from nearly everyone. Some of these, like "grandfathering", cannot even be understood without deep…

> People-first language (“enslaved people” not “slaves”)

“enslaved people” is not people/person-first language.

“People who are enslaved” is people-first language.

“enslaved people” is “situation first” (more commonly “identity first” or “disability first”, but neither strictly applies to “being enslaved”) language, just as “slaves” is. (In the disability context, “the disabled” and “disabled people” are textbook examples of “disability first” language, to which “people first” or “person first” language is contrasted.)

EDIT: Yes, I realize that this is an example of "people-first" language given near the opening of this opinion piece. It says something that in this rant about "equity language", the example given of the application of a particular form ("people-first language") of equity language is basically a textbook example of what that form seeks to avoid rather than what it prescribes.

> For example, it seems like we can’t say “mother” anymore in medical settings.

You can absolutely use “mother” to describe a specific person who, in fact, is a mother in medical settings. Because people of non-feminine gender identity can give birth, it is sub-optimal and exclusionary as a generic term for a person giving, or who has given, birth.

> I support trans people living however they want, but my mother was a mother

Literally no one has a problem with your mother being described as a mother.

> At work, a “women in engineering” group got renamed to something bland like “gender minorities in tech”.

Presumably, it got renamed that because whoever made decisions for it decided the mission was broader than women. “Gender minorities” isn’t a bland alternative to “women”, it has a broader scope.

Re: Banning words won’t make the world more just

#297

Only tangentially related but I think it's interesting that just as we popularized the word "Ms.", and I think it makes perfect sense not to refer to women primarily by their marital status, we sort of worked around the issue by... largely just not using title/last name anymore. Right? I don't think I've referred to anyone by a title since my grade school teachers, and at least in my industry and corner of society, i…

> I think it makes perfect sense not to refer to women primarily by their marital status

Not in isolation, but in full context there may be some practical merit. In the earlier age where these titles were used, women adopted their husband's entire name. A woman who married Mr. Robert Smith would become Mrs. Robert Smith. This provides feedback that her given name isn't Robert. Ms. Robert Smith would be ambiguous. Is her given name actually Robert or is she married to Robert? Who knows?

But, indeed, in the modern age nobody cares about titles. We have heavily curated Instagram feeds, or whatever it is the cool kids are into these days, to serve as a status indicator instead. That's the thing about status indicators: They only serve to display status for so long until it becomes commonplace and those with status have to move on to new indicators to stand out.

Re: Banning words won’t make the world more just

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For my partner's entire pregnancy, our providers only referred to "birthing people" Calling my wife a "birthing person" just made her feel like some gross vessel for having a baby. We purposefully chose providers that didn't use that language. "Chestfeeding" is another one that's cropping up and makes zero sense. Men have breasts, so breastfeeding is already gender-neutral. But it's seen as female-centric so out th…

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Of course there is. Adult human female.

Re: Banning words won’t make the world more just

#299

The pendulum is swinging back because equity language censors took this way way too far. People-first language ("enslaved people" not "slaves") makes complete sense to me, but making a big fuss about how common English idioms like being "blind to a problem" is somehow offensive is going to earn you nothing but eyerolls from nearly everyone. Some of these, like "grandfathering", cannot even be understood without deep…

> For example, it seems like we can't say "mother" anymore in medical settings. Well, that's entirely up to you and me isn't it? I think what bothers me is not so much the word police (ignore them) but everyone else that allow them to set the agenda. I talk the way I've talked my entire life and I don't care what people think about it.

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Re: Banning words won’t make the world more just

#300
post #275

> Urban, vibrant, hardworking, and brown bag all crash to earth for subtle racism. I'm seriously trying to figure out the riddle of how any of these terms are remotely racial.

I’ll give it a try, not necessarily successfully: Urban, in the sense of urban or inner city youth, might be a reference to black children. (Or it might not. And one might actually be referencing urban things in the sense of not suburban or rural.) Vibrant: makes, ahem, people living with color blindness feel marginalized. Hardworking: I’m struggling to come up with something even as credible as the last two. Maybe i…

> Hardworking: I’m struggling to come up with something even as credible as the last two. Maybe it’s ableist: some people can’t work hard.

I'm guessing the logic is something similar the absolutely ridiculous (IMO) graphic I've linked below from the National Museum of African American History & Culture which lists a lot of aspects of white culture in the United States. One of the many items on their list was the "Protestant Work Ethic" and a few bullet points about how hard work equals success.

https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/1283372233730203651?s=2...

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