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Non-linear career paths are the future

forbes.com

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Re: Non-linear career paths are the future

#11

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

xwdv wrote: post #9
skullone wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ageism is too much of a thing in tech. These young frontend js developers can't even hold down F2 to enter the BIOS. So much knowledge lost from companies letting decades worth of experience walk out the door. And it shows, so many modern products have shite architecture.

Unfortunately though the lifespan of modern products isn’t very long either, so there’s not much value in investing in old time engineers to build products that could last forever. Any idiot can build a bridge that stands, but it takes an engineer to build a bridge that barely stands, etc.

I've written SDKs that were still in use, 25 years later, on highly modern equipment (digicam SDK -originally designed for film scanners).

The biggest extracurricular project that I did, was first released in early 2009, and is still picking up traction, this very day...

Depends on what you want. Some stuff should not be designed for the long haul, but some, definitely should.

Re: Non-linear career paths are the future

#12

Post by germinalphrase »

Local 600 Loader/2nd AC in film industry > high school English teacher > tech industry consultant.

I feel really fortunate to have made these transitions without much turmoil (though I would argue the costs of doing so are quite high relative to people I know who have had a more linear path).

Re: Non-linear career paths are the future

#13

Post by ag3ist »

skullone wrote: post #6
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #5

High School Dropout -> GED -> Redneck Tech School -> RF Tech -> OJT -> Electronic Test Engineer -> Extracurricular Learning -> Big Iron Programmer -> Extracurricular Learning -> Mac Programmer -> Major Corporation -> Major Engineering Company for 27 Years (as Engineer and Manager) -> Declared Persona Non Grata in the Tech Industry (for Being Old) -> Extracurricular Learning -> Working for Free on Stuff That I Find In…

Ageism is too much of a thing in tech. These young frontend js developers can't even hold down F2 to enter the BIOS. So much knowledge lost from companies letting decades worth of experience walk out the door. And it shows, so many modern products have shite architecture.

Ageism is a thing in society; young workers are on the hook serving elder owners “experience” propping up their value store (ephemeral assets/brands), serving their contracts and debts.

Humanity will only ever play the “don’t say these words or you’re ageist.” as reality will always force elders on the young and force the young to shut them out to define their own social value stores.

There is evidence in neuroscience by 13-14 kids brains “switch off” to their mothers voice, favoring new emotional information. Does not seem unreasonable then that even as adults we need to “switch off” and experience new modals: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/mom-voice-kid-brain-teen...

Individuals need to accept their mortality, not just literally but figuratively.

Re: Non-linear career paths are the future

#14

Post by mabbo »

For a decade at Amazon, nearly everyone I worked with was following the linear, expected path. High school, university, degree, FAANG job. Amazon basically didn't interview SDE1s unless they were new grads. For a number of years that policy was explicit from our Director because "we find that works out best".

Now I'm at Shopify, where it feels like a complete 180. More than half my team took non-traditional paths- former dietician, government clerk, logger (like with a chainsaw). My team doesn't even seem like an outlier.

One thing I've noticed: the women I work with now are far more likely to have taken a non-linear path to get here. They weren't encouraged to go into that career when they were in high school, but later in life realized it was a good choice. One really great staff dev I've worked with told me how she was encouraged to be a tech recruiter (and did), then slowly realized she could be the one making the huge salaries she was offering people.

Amazon would never have given them a chance. And funny enough, Amazon struggles to hire women in dev roles.

Re: Non-linear career paths are the future

#16

Post by xwdv »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #11
xwdv wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately though the lifespan of modern products isn’t very long either, so there’s not much value in investing in old time engineers to build products that could last forever. Any idiot can build a bridge that stands, but it takes an engineer to build a bridge that barely stands, etc.

I've written SDKs that were still in use, 25 years later, on highly modern equipment (digicam SDK -originally designed for film scanners). The biggest extracurricular project that I did, was first released in early 2009, and is still picking up traction, this very day... Depends on what you want. Some stuff should not be designed for the long haul, but some, definitely should.

But has that improved your hireability or???

Re: Non-linear career paths are the future

#17

Post by programmarchy »

skullone wrote: post #6
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #5

High School Dropout -> GED -> Redneck Tech School -> RF Tech -> OJT -> Electronic Test Engineer -> Extracurricular Learning -> Big Iron Programmer -> Extracurricular Learning -> Mac Programmer -> Major Corporation -> Major Engineering Company for 27 Years (as Engineer and Manager) -> Declared Persona Non Grata in the Tech Industry (for Being Old) -> Extracurricular Learning -> Working for Free on Stuff That I Find In…

Ageism is too much of a thing in tech. These young frontend js developers can't even hold down F2 to enter the BIOS. So much knowledge lost from companies letting decades worth of experience walk out the door. And it shows, so many modern products have shite architecture.

> Ageism is too much of a thing in tech.

> These young frontend js developers can't even...

I hope you can see the irony in your post.

Re: Non-linear career paths are the future

#18

Post by eointierney »

Polymath was always an idea that appealed, mainly due to Leonardo da Vinci (check out his drawings of turbulent water).

I think the problem is career paths, as though a working life must optimise for linearity to achieve success, when instead those individuals who explore breadth and depth and fun are both most productive and creative.

Anyone who can see a problem and potential solution through more than one prism of learning is nearly always better able to communicate their insight and share their joy of thought. They tend to be more patient of failure, happier to be corrected, and fresher when returning to the problem again.

Also, more money demonstrating multi-disciplinary competence when moving jobs is definitely a thing. Good managers are rare

Re: Non-linear career paths are the future

#19

Post by mattgreenrocks »

skullone wrote: post #6
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #5

High School Dropout -> GED -> Redneck Tech School -> RF Tech -> OJT -> Electronic Test Engineer -> Extracurricular Learning -> Big Iron Programmer -> Extracurricular Learning -> Mac Programmer -> Major Corporation -> Major Engineering Company for 27 Years (as Engineer and Manager) -> Declared Persona Non Grata in the Tech Industry (for Being Old) -> Extracurricular Learning -> Working for Free on Stuff That I Find In…

Ageism is too much of a thing in tech. These young frontend js developers can't even hold down F2 to enter the BIOS. So much knowledge lost from companies letting decades worth of experience walk out the door. And it shows, so many modern products have shite architecture.

IME, technologists don't care how old you are. The problem is identifying them and finding groups of them. Not all devs are technologists, and, arguably, not all technologists are even devs.

It comes down to what motivates you.

Re: Non-linear career paths are the future

#20

Post by snek_case »

eointierney wrote: post #18

Polymath was always an idea that appealed, mainly due to Leonardo da Vinci (check out his drawings of turbulent water). I think the problem is career paths, as though a working life must optimise for linearity to achieve success, when instead those individuals who explore breadth and depth and fun are both most productive and creative. Anyone who can see a problem and potential solution through more than one prism of…

Part of the problem is the idea that people must have X years experience in Y.

I once applied to a game development company. I have something like 20 years experience in systems programming. The problem is that my CV doesn't have any game development experience on it... But when I was about 20, I programmed my own 3D engine, and my own raytracer with soft shadows. A few years ago, I've worked with GLSL as well. I'm familiar with concepts like perspective projection, backface culling, scene graphs, shaders, 3D models, etc. and I'm sure that I could figure out how to work on a 3D game and produce useful work fairly quickly, but these people quickly tossed my CV into the "no" pile because I've never worked at a game development company before.

At the end of the day, I'm doing very well at a different company doing systems programming, but my point is, people look for boxes to check on your CV. This is especially bad if you have to go through non-technical recruiters. Your best bet if you want to get into a programming job IMO is to try to speak directly to developers who work at the company. If you can show them you know your stuff, they might just give you a chance.

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