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Banning words won’t make the world more just

theatlantic.com

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Re: Banning words won’t make the world more just

#61

Post by germandiago »

wonderwonder wrote: post #6

"The American Cancer Society advises that Latinx, along with the equally gender-neutral Latine, Latin@, and Latinu, “may or may not be fully embraced by older generations and may need additional explanation.” Cool cool, I look forward as a white guy to explaining to a group of Spanish people why they are wrong and are really LatinX and I'm doing it for their protection. Imagine being an immigrant and having to learn…

I am spanish. I fully agree this is all deeply stupid political-industry stuff that just generates artificial conflicts.

Like many other things in politics.

Re: Banning words won’t make the world more just

#62

Post by leonidasv »

wonderwonder wrote: post #6

"The American Cancer Society advises that Latinx, along with the equally gender-neutral Latine, Latin@, and Latinu, “may or may not be fully embraced by older generations and may need additional explanation.” Cool cool, I look forward as a white guy to explaining to a group of Spanish people why they are wrong and are really LatinX and I'm doing it for their protection. Imagine being an immigrant and having to learn…

And there was no need for bringing up this unreadable "Latinx" word in the first place.

There's already a centuries-old gender-neutral word for Latino/Latina that is, surprise, "Latin". Or "Latin person" if you will.

I was born in South America, and I really reject being called a "Latinx". It sounds dehumanizing.

Re: Banning words won’t make the world more just

#63

Post by sanderjd »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #15
autodev1 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder... what is the difference between an "experience" vs a "lived experience"? If I have an experience-- such as walking through the park, this afternoon and picking a blackberry... What is a "lived experience" version of that same experience?

“lived experience” was generally first used to differentiate between a person saying “I have experience with x issue” who could be saying “I’ve studied it; I’ve worked with the population” but “lived experience” makes it specific to being an individual’s own life.

It's still used that way. I'm always confused why people criticize this one in particular. The distinction makes perfect sense. There's an enormous amount of stuff that I've read a bunch about or watched a lot of media about or talked about with people, but is nonetheless outside my lived experience.

Re: Banning words won’t make the world more just

#64

Post by germandiago »

autodev1 wrote: post #12
wonderwonder wrote: post #6

"The American Cancer Society advises that Latinx, along with the equally gender-neutral Latine, Latin@, and Latinu, “may or may not be fully embraced by older generations and may need additional explanation.” Cool cool, I look forward as a white guy to explaining to a group of Spanish people why they are wrong and are really LatinX and I'm doing it for their protection. Imagine being an immigrant and having to learn…

[flagged]

Hahahahaha! Best post I read today.

Re: Banning words won’t make the world more just

#65

Post by wonderwonder »

dragonwriter wrote: post #55
wonderwonder wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you feel if people of another race, especially one that has historically oppressed yours decided they knew better than you and decided to change the rules as to how you were referred and if you objected told you it was for your protection?

Latine and LatinX don't come from “people of a different race” than those it applies to (even without considering the artificial race/ethnicity distinction.)

Does it really matter? If the majority of latin people don't like it, then why force it on them?

Re: Banning words won’t make the world more just

#66

Post by soiler »

JohnFen wrote: post #29
wonderwonder wrote: post #6

"The American Cancer Society advises that Latinx, along with the equally gender-neutral Latine, Latin@, and Latinu, “may or may not be fully embraced by older generations and may need additional explanation.” Cool cool, I look forward as a white guy to explaining to a group of Spanish people why they are wrong and are really LatinX and I'm doing it for their protection. Imagine being an immigrant and having to learn…

A good friend of mine is a Spanish translator for a social services agency. She was telling me that the "latinx" thing is a real problem, because for people -- particularly older people -- who are not strong on their reading in the first place, they hit "LatinX" and genuinely have zero idea what that's supposed to mean. So then time, energy, and goodwill gets wasted by having to explain to people what they "should" b…

There's an extra layer of post-colonialism in this situation, but it's otherwise almost identical to the discussion happening in English about gendered pronouns. I think the following can both be true:

1. It's bad to tell people that they're using their native language badly if you're not a native speaker (especially in a scenario where there's a social power dynamic at play, like Spanish speakers trying to navigate discrimination in the US). People making things harder for immigrants without compassion for their challenges are probably making a mistake.

2. It's bad to say "this whole thing is just stupid" about a radical shift in language that's being deliberately embraced by younger people to break down discriminatory gender traditions, just because it's new and you're mildly confused about it. People making things harder for gender-nonconforming people are probably making a mistake.

Re: Banning words won’t make the world more just

#67

Post by germandiago »

bradleyjg wrote: post #20
wonderwonder wrote: post #6

"The American Cancer Society advises that Latinx, along with the equally gender-neutral Latine, Latin@, and Latinu, “may or may not be fully embraced by older generations and may need additional explanation.” Cool cool, I look forward as a white guy to explaining to a group of Spanish people why they are wrong and are really LatinX and I'm doing it for their protection. Imagine being an immigrant and having to learn…

It’s about class. Not in the usual American sense of how much money you make, but in the older sense of people thinking they are better sorts of people because they have the correct diction, education, religious views, professions, and so on.

It is a universal truth that all of us feel worse or better than. No matter how mich politically-correct stuff you put on top.

And there is nothing wrong with it. Respect is the only thing needed.

Re: Banning words won’t make the world more just

#68

Post by t344344 »

majormajor wrote: post #32
t344344 wrote: post #3

Is not "equity language" just another form of neocolonialism? How can "rich educated people" rename entire ethnic group (latinx) without their consent? Also there is nothing offensive about being "poor"... Equity language is just another tool to oppress people.

The term latinx didn't come out of "rich educated people" - certainly a lot of educated folk have been pushing it in the last decade (self-identifying grad students and recent college grads, for instance) - but there's a weird sort of prejudice going on in assuming everything can only come out of "rich educated [non-latino, based on your use of "their" there] people" Some discussion here: https://www.latimes.com/opin…

Ok, two points:

1) anyone who studies in US university, is "rich educated" for South American standards

2) Quote from article bellow:

> a queer Latina ... mostly from white, right-wing Latino men.

> “When you’re a white Latino ... Black Latino ... transgender Latino, next to a queer Latino, next to an Indigenous Latino

> understand the diversity of our community

Those three paragraphs paint picture that "Latino" is some sort of community. And you can be in-group or out-group (by being right-wing-white-Latino). There is also somebody who speaks on behalf of "our community".

But that is simply not true. It is an ethnic group. Its name may change over a few decades, if new name gains use in South America. Not in a few years, because some US citizens said so, and decided to rename "their community"!

Re: Banning words won’t make the world more just

#69

Post by ilyt »

autodev1 wrote: post #42
User23 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally think we need to introduce Latin-American-American to the lexicon.

I just had a realization: "Latin" already includes "la" at the beginning of the word-- which is the feminine infinitive. Therefore, LatinA and LatinX are redundant. Or, perhaps we as arbitors of global culture, should enforce our new inventin: ElTin and LaTin ...and maybe a LeTin. or LxTin Actually let's go with all of the above. And any other creations as well. because who cares-- throw in the kitchen sink! /more si…

Xatinx should cover everything then
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