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Starbucks illegally fired US workers over union, judge rules

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Starbucks illegally fired US workers over union, judge rules

#121
post #69

Its funny to watch "progressive" mega corporations like Starbucks, Apple, Amazon + more skirt around unions. Essentially they use PR to say we are all for these corporate safe progressive topics... but any topics of worker rights, unions.. nope.

There's no such thing as a progressive company. They do it for marketing reasons, only after a movement made up of many people taking risks "normalised" a particular form of social progress.

Re: Starbucks illegally fired US workers over union, judge rules

#122
post #5

I want to know about closing stores in apparent retaliation against unionizing. This has been happening lately in Boston, with the Cambridge Milk Bar location and the Boylston Starbucks location. It seems like that's the new corporate tactic to try to discourage unionizing. Of course, if every store unionized, then they'd be forced to concede at some point that they still need to keep stores open in order to make mon…

Walmart closed a number of stores in 2014-2016, many for as short a time as 6 months, some for over a year. Officially, they claimed that they were being remodeled or that they had plumbing issues that needed fixing (it was only 5 at the time of this article[0]). Employees claimed that they were closed to block unionization moves. Conspiracy theory minded people claimed that they were being turned into prison camps for Jade Helm [1]. Previously, Walmart had stopped cutting meat in stores because meat cutters had unionized in a couple of locations[2][3].

0 - https://www.businessinsider.com/wal-mart-and-jade-helm-consp...

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jade_Helm_15_conspiracy_theori...

2 - https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/2000/03/04/w...

3 - https://www.ufcw.org/press-releases/wal-mart-ordered-to-reco...

Re: Starbucks illegally fired US workers over union, judge rules

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, no one should cross a picket line.

It sounds nice in practice but there are desperate people out there. A strike provides those people with opportunities. Prisoner's dillema keeps them from sacrificing themselves for a union that sees them as the out-group.

Scabs hurt everyone.

Re: Starbucks illegally fired US workers over union, judge rules

#124
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employees can’t 1/35,000th quit the way Starbucks can close 1/35,000th of its locations. As such closing a few locations is absolutely trivial for Starbucks if it serves some larger purpose.

maybe the union can open a coffee shop then! and hire employees and give them union protection. what a concept.

If anyone's organizing a movement to help do this to force Starbucks' hand, I'll donate a few bucks

(Unionize all the stores in an area, and if Starbucks shuts them all down, just open a new coffee shop)

Re: Starbucks illegally fired US workers over union, judge rules

#125
post #69

Its funny to watch "progressive" mega corporations like Starbucks, Apple, Amazon + more skirt around unions. Essentially they use PR to say we are all for these corporate safe progressive topics... but any topics of worker rights, unions.. nope.

There's no such thing as a progressive company. They do it for marketing reasons, only after a movement made up of many people taking risks "normalised" a particular form of social progress.

If corporations are people, every one is a psychopath willing to lie and cheat to get what they want.

Re: Starbucks illegally fired US workers over union, judge rules

#126
post #60
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a clear cut case of retaliation and the SCOTUS is wrong in this case. At the minimum there should be a $Duration long waiting period.

> I think this is a clear cut case of retaliation and the SCOTUS is wrong in this case. Where do you draw the line between "retaliation" and "refusing a bad deal"? If spotify wants to hike its monthly price by $10 and I cancel, is that "retaliating" or just me not liking the new deal?

The problem is that "having a union" isn't a bad deal that you can just legally refuse, any more than following health and safety rules, or overtime rules, is a "bad deal" that Starbucks can refuse if they want. Having a union at the store costs Starbucks nothing, or maybe a little bit of the manager's time here and there.

An individual contract might not be financially viable for a given Starbucks location, but nobody is arguing that they will be forced to sign such a contract.

Re: Starbucks illegally fired US workers over union, judge rules

#127
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as a progressive company. They do it for marketing reasons, only after a movement made up of many people taking risks "normalised" a particular form of social progress.

If corporations are people, every one is a psychopath willing to lie and cheat to get what they want.

Willing to murder too.

Re: Starbucks illegally fired US workers over union, judge rules

#128

As a side note, I find it just incredible that the CEO of Starbucks, Howard Schultz, actually campaigned for the president under the democratic party. And Hillary Clinton was going to make him labor secretary . When even the left leaning party is that right wing, something has gone terribly wrong.

I dream that one day American democratic voters will actually have a left-of-center candidate in the presidential race.

Re: Starbucks illegally fired US workers over union, judge rules

#129

Setting aside this specific case, what is a business supposed to do if a union's demands are unreasonable and make it infeasible to keep the business profitable? If they try and replace the unionized workers, that is frowned upon and in some cases illegal. If they shut down the business due to no longer being viable, that seems to also be legally murky. If a group of employees wants to band together and collectively…

>Setting aside this specific case, what is a business supposed to do if a union's demands are unreasonable and make it infeasible to keep the business profitable? If they try and replace the unionized workers, that is frowned upon and in some cases illegal. If they shut down the business due to no longer being viable, that seems to also be legally murky.

Don't sign a contract that's unreasonable and makes your business unprofitable. That's what the company is supposed to do.

Re: Starbucks illegally fired US workers over union, judge rules

#130

Setting aside this specific case, what is a business supposed to do if a union's demands are unreasonable and make it infeasible to keep the business profitable? If they try and replace the unionized workers, that is frowned upon and in some cases illegal. If they shut down the business due to no longer being viable, that seems to also be legally murky. If a group of employees wants to band together and collectively…

> if a union's demands are unreasonable and make it infeasible to keep the business profitable

What a strange hypothetical! That's certainly never happened, and given the current power dynamic, incredibly unlikely to happen today.

Whatever regulations there are to protect workers were created because of unions, not instead of them. If employers had been given the choice, there wouldn't be unions or regulations.

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