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All you may need is HTML

fabiensanglard.net

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Re: All you may need is HTML

#81

Post by pc86 »

shiomiru wrote: post #78
bombcar wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of http://motherfuckingwebsite.com and http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com But the key, underlying point to ALL this stuff is that you do NOT NEED TO WORRY ABOUT PRESENTATION until you have the CONTENT. A huge temptation is to spend hours and hours tweaking the presentation as a way of avoiding actually creating the content; this is the real danger. (should mention https://thebestmotherfucking.website of…

Clicking on the first website, I can't even view it because it's asking for captcha. So, to extend your comment: you do not need to worry about content if your website isn't even reachable. A GET request should never result in the client being bombarded with captchas. Unless you have a sure fire way to determine if said client is a human or an evil AI taking over the world (nobody does), just serve the damn page.

> Clicking on the first website, I can't even view it because it's asking for captcha.

It's definitely not, there is something else doing that to you. But it's not this website.

Re: All you may need is HTML

#82

Post by manuelmoreale »

kevincox wrote: post #4

> Originally this website's font-family simply requested monospace. This approach resulted in varying reading experience depending on the OS. Windows browsers got Consolas, Linux users got DejaVu Sans Mono, and macOS people got Courier. I find it so sad that our browsers have such bad default fonts that all websites feel the need to override them to get an acceptable look. It would be great if browsers had decent def…

They solution IMO is not to rely on default browser fonts but rather to pick a stack that’s available at the OS level.

On my site for example, I designed everything using Iowan as my main font because I know that it’s available on most Apple OS but then I manually picked a few fallback fonts that should be available on Windows, Android and the rest.

Default serif is just the last option if everything else doesn’t work.

Re: All you may need is HTML

#83

Post by kerkeslager »

berkes wrote: post #63
martin_a wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat subtle, but: Yes and No. I'd say HTML for itself just gives us a way to give meaning or imply how something should be styled "headline of first order". In the end it's a markup language, not some magic styling tool. How it is actually styled (in absence of CSS) is in the hands of the default rendering of your browser. That might very well be a very bad rendering, due to lack of knowledge/time/engagement of t…

> I'm quite certain that a large part of the web would need no CSS or just a few lines of it, if the basic (browser applied styles) were good . As in: designed I think we would win a lot if browsers default styles were beautiful (as in: really good, not merely fancy) designed. Many websites then would need just a few lines to set some colors, style that weird-custom thing they do or make it feel just a bit more perso…

I think the bigger thing would be to have more semantic HTML. , Content, Content, , etc. Instead we've got a million immature implementations of these that are slower because they are written in JS instead of native code, slowly break over time as they aren't maintained, and typically have terrible accessibility.

Re: All you may need is HTML

#84

Post by mmsimanga »

I am a budding woodworker. Not very good at it. Spent too much money on tools I have never used. My most used creation is a tablet stand which is basically two pieces of wood with a hinge joining them. I wish someone had given me similar sort of advice as the OP about tools when starting out. You don't need as many as you think especially as an amateur with limited space. Feels like web development is the same. I get that big companies have resources and people to maintain the fancy CMSs and SSGs but someone like me who writes one post every two years perhaps plain old HTML is best.

Re: All you may need is HTML

#85

Post by myfonj »

myfonj wrote: post #74
kevincox wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have an Apple device to test but does that mean that the author's point about the default `monospace` font "Courier New, is not legible" is out of date or just a rare opinion?

Probably very subjective. I, for one, am still using Courier New as my main monospace font, especially for code, and actually prefer having typewriter-y "serifs". No other serif-y monospace I've found fitted. I don't mind Consolas, and I like what is author using now (DejaVu Sans Mono), but their stance about varying reading experience depending on the OS makes me really, really devastated, because it just reflects a…

Fun fact: even though author have expressed a lot of opinions in their CSS, still for me the result is probably different from what they expected: since author does not define font colour, I see it in my default (not black but dark brown), plus paragraphs are slightly indented for me, since I limit their maximum width through userstyle. Funnily enough, background colour that author chose (and set, #F5F5F0) is nearly identical to my preferred background colour.

Authors defining background colour without defining text colour is the reason we cannot effectively have default dark background and light text default in our UAs, because in this case we would see authors (light) background and ours (light) text.

Re: All you may need is HTML

#86

Post by hannes0 »

low_tech_love wrote: post #58
bombcar wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of http://motherfuckingwebsite.com and http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com But the key, underlying point to ALL this stuff is that you do NOT NEED TO WORRY ABOUT PRESENTATION until you have the CONTENT. A huge temptation is to spend hours and hours tweaking the presentation as a way of avoiding actually creating the content; this is the real danger. (should mention https://thebestmotherfucking.website of…

Wow, thanks for those links! No joke; the CSS on the better site is literally going to become my default CSS from now on.

If you want a bit more, but not the frameworks with thousands of unused classes, this might be helpful: https://www.cssbed.com/

Re: All you may need is HTML

#87

Post by crabbone »

Some years ago I was interviewing for head of automation position, and in the process was asked how'd I go about making sure a Web admin interface (to a product that by and large doesn't need a Web interface, think, in the same category as Kubernetes) is well-tested.

To which I responded that I'd not use any JavaScript. Ideally, XML with stylesheets. Very light-weight, renders extremely fast, and is extremely friendly to automation tools (doesn't even require a browser for most tests). For the kind of product this was intended for, and I still believe it to this day, it would've been perfect: nobody needs any CSS animations there or any kind of interaction beyond filling forms and submitting them.

One of the interviewers was the head of the front-end department. He hadn't for a moment considered this to not be a joke, but pretended to answer this seriously by explaining that if they don't put a fashionable JavaScript framework into job description, they will not be able to hire front-end programmers.

In reality, there are plenty of things on the Web that could, in principle, be just HTML or, as in my example, XML + stylesheet, but won't be for no reason other than to feed the echochamber of the job market. Nevermind that from the business side this makes user experience worse, costs more to host and to maintain, and yet...

Re: All you may need is HTML

#88

Post by mikechalmers »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #60

> WHY YOU MAY NOT NEED CSS > The fluff does not really matter much. > WHY YOU MAY NOT NEED CUSTOM FONTS > Custom fonts are a waste of bandwidth and a visual annoyance Right-click -> View Page Source. Top of the page is a stylesheet that loads 2 fonts. Hard to take this article seriously.

To be fair, the author uses the qualifier "may" and explains the desire for monospace and consistency. It's not like it's clickbait, the author makes a valid argument. Perhaps disregard sub-headings if it results in overlooking the nuance of the article's overall suggestions.

Re: All you may need is HTML

#89

Post by webdood90 »

crabbone wrote: post #87

Some years ago I was interviewing for head of automation position, and in the process was asked how'd I go about making sure a Web admin interface (to a product that by and large doesn't need a Web interface, think, in the same category as Kubernetes) is well-tested. To which I responded that I'd not use any JavaScript. Ideally, XML with stylesheets. Very light-weight, renders extremely fast, and is extremely friendl…

you can't get anything done if nobody wants to do the work

Re: All you may need is HTML

#90

Post by mikrl »

crabbone wrote: post #87

Some years ago I was interviewing for head of automation position, and in the process was asked how'd I go about making sure a Web admin interface (to a product that by and large doesn't need a Web interface, think, in the same category as Kubernetes) is well-tested. To which I responded that I'd not use any JavaScript. Ideally, XML with stylesheets. Very light-weight, renders extremely fast, and is extremely friendl…

No one wants to write html_page.html, but html_page.js?? Now you’re talking.
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