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U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

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Re: U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

#351

Post by thomasjb »

Brybry wrote: post #277
AdamN wrote: post #261

In Berlin, Deutsche Post use electric trikes and mail here is very efficient.

I think in the states the cost in lives might be significant if we did that. If you look at USPS annual reports to congress they have ~27k motor vehicle accidents a year with a fleet of ~236k vehicles (~216k delivery).[1] So possibly 10%+ of their vehicles are involved in accidents each year. If we look at occupant fatality rates for vans (what usps currently use) they're one of the safest vehicle types.[2] Meanwhile…

I would like to see the accident rate for those riding motorcycles as couriers, as that is possibly the most relevant metric

Re: U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

#352

Post by euroderf »

crote wrote: post #311
euroderf wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe combined with autonomous electric forklifts to shuttle cargo to/from a waystation.

Forklifts?! No, you either use intermodal containers, or just put the entire trailer onto the train.

Sure containers are the standard... except for the last mile for non-industrial, which is a lot of stuff.

Re: U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

#353

Post by mcv »

jonasdegendt wrote: post #320
mcv wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dutch postal service PostNL has a wide variety of vehicles ranging from trucks to bicycles. And as far as I know, bicycles have always been a big part of the last few miles of mail delivery here. https://www.postnl.nl/over-postnl/pers-nieuws/beeldmateriaal...

They have all these vehicles but what's actually being used in practice in the Netherlands for last mile deliveries? I'm in the city center of a large Belgian city and 99% of my deliveries from both BPost and PostNL are still the regular white panel vans, even though both have local sorting centers.

It's entirely possible that Belgium is different. PostNL has also always had cars and vans, but I've also seen them use bikes of various types for as long as I can remember. Of course before the advent of cargo bikes and especially cargo e-bikes, bikes were of course mostly limited to delivering letters, but they definitely did that. Lately they've been moving to bigger and bigger cargo bikes, presumably in order to use less cars, even for larger packages.

But they also used bikes way back when they were still called PTT: https://www.transportfiets.net/2007/06/27/postfietsen-van-de... https://i.pinimg.com/474x/5c/00/9f/5c009f57703d05c367078d55e...

But on this search, I can even spot some Belgian mail deliverers on bicycles: https://www.google.com/search?q=postbode+op+fiets

Re: U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

#354

Post by smileysteve »

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #17

Where are they going to charge them once a post office has a few? I thought I read somewhere that charging infrastructure is fine for a household but a fleet of 10+ EVs will need significantly more juice (technical term) and hardware to mitigate significant safety concerns.

Many post offices are not in residential zoned buildings, generally when you're low density commercial a building is closer to a substation. Though I'm sure many mail distribution centers have had low density industrial connections for sorters.

Re: U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

#355

Post by theshrike79 »

jjeaff wrote: post #149
mulmen wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regen braking plus zero-cost idle. Electric is at a clear advantage for local delivery.

Most gas delivery vehicles don't idle these days. But maybe the starter motor requires more maintenance.

Wait, "most" (over 50%) long-haul trucks and vans have start-stop functionality?

Re: U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

#356

Post by AnssiH »

nine_k wrote: post #248
pancrufty wrote: post #232

I'm looking forward to the day physical mail is outlawed with few exceptions. Junk mail is such a wasteful endeavor only meant to subsidize shipments of value that can't be electronic.

I receive maybe 5 lb of paper mail a year, stuff which could be electronic. I receive easily 500 lb of physical parcels a year, stuff like dog food, cat litter, coffee, etc. Also, banning physical paper mail implies that you have to have an official email address for official documents like taxes.

> Also, banning physical paper mail implies that you have to have an official email address for official documents like taxes.

Or have a government online service where you receive such documents (as done here in Finland, though it is entirely optional).

Re: U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

#357

Post by rout39574 »

Tade0 wrote: post #333
comboy wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From quick search electric car uses 0.15-0.2kWh per kilometer. That's amount of energy you get after delivering 200 Watts for an hour. Let's say you have 2m2 of roof (pretty generous), of very efficient panels in your driving in absolute optimal conditions when they are giving you full power (that's around 200W/m2). No loses on the inverter and such. So you need to be going at the speed of 2km/h. Well, that's actuall…

I suppose it makes sense to at least power the AC with them, as its drain correlates with the amount of sunlight.

AC is pretty power hungry; solar panels on the roof of an average van (best case) aren't going to make much of a dent. I find estimates of 10-20 miles per day of range in the best cases.

At current prices, my sense is that solar panels on vehicles are marketing, not materially contributing to the energy budget. Nothing wrong with that but I wouldn't like to spend my feature money on the option.

Re: U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

#358

Post by theshrike79 »

trompetenaccoun wrote: post #253
Symbiote wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rapid charging cost, on occasion, in the countries with the highest dependence on natural gas for electricity. That's not relevant for current commercial delivery use cases.

True. But keep in mind the price of electricity has gone up for everyone in all of Europe, not just at charging stations. For private car owners with no place to charge at home the effect is most drastically visible, as the example shows. But of course when the prices go up it also affects every businesses bottom line. Btw in many countries there are discounted rates for large electricity purchasers, like corporation…

I'm on a market rate plan (price changes hourly).

Today I'm paying all of 3c/kWh for electricity. Can't get much cheaper than that.

Also the EV+range thing is mostly negated by pre-heating the car while it's plugged in at home, warm battery = more range. Just like we need to do with ICE cars to make the engines even start in the winter.

Re: U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

#359

Post by theshrike79 »

jedberg wrote: post #314
Mayzie wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Horns are a thing?

People are hard to see when driving. Especially children and people on sidewalks who are about to step into the street. Also if I’m backing up would you rather a muted noise or me constantly hitting my horn?

> constantly hitting my horn

India has entered the chat. =)

Re: U.S. Postal Service starts nationwide electric vehicle fleet, buying 9,250 EVs

#360

Post by dsfyu404ed »

acdha wrote: post #345
rmccue wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like there could be selection bias in those numbers, so I’m not sure that can be extrapolated. I’d expect that the percentage of vans driven by professional drivers is relatively high, compared to motorcycles.

Motorcycles in particular famously have a curve where older people buy them after not riding for a while. I remember seeing a chart showing crashes as a function of recent driver experience and it was IIRC the first 2-3 years which had the highest fatality rate by a surprising margin.

Kids are out of college, house is paid for, nest egg is funded, wife finally lets husband take up his old "dangerous" hobby again. (I'm joking, but also not joking).

Also don't forget about all the young guys who are riding spiritedly everywhere. Even if you're good the inherent risk of that is high and given enough exposure...

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