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Europe pushing for lunar time zone

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241–250 of 406 posts

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#241
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should rename English to "European" while we're at it, or "Standard".

If you really want to annoy an English person, use an American flag to represent English-language localization

"English (Traditional) vs English (Simplified)"

(joke explanation: this is a reference to the two Chinese writing systems, used in PRC and Taiwan)

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#242
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cue sci-fi dystopia where the totalitarian Mars gov't gases (or somehow otherwise knocks out) everyone for 40 minutes while they search the place and haul off dissidents.

You definitely need to watch Dark City (if you haven't already!) The movie does a variation on this exact plot. Very well, even.

Yes, have seen it. Yes, had the same thought.

("Great minds think alike.")

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#243
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it is pesky Einstein guy with his general relativity. The bigger problem is that our timekeeping is earth based. The time definition should have been based on deep space, with corrections for time on earth. So earth clock are slow with respect to clocks in deep space. Clocks on the moon are less slow are therefore faster than on earth

Not a physicist, but I was led to understand there is no universal frame of reference. You can't base time on deep space as if time was the same across all deep space, because it isn't. Right? A local time "correction" is easy when you compare against exactly one other point in space but if you want something like an universe-wide UTC that everyone can correct against, it can't be done. Although I don't really unders…

Not a physicist either, but one practical problem is the speed of light. Time synchronization is likely to become very tricky if you have communicate with time sources that are hundreds of light years away.

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#246
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those things should be on UTC anyway (even on earth). Timezones are just for displaying to humans.

They really should have been on TAI. I guess it doesn't matter now if we won't get any more leap seconds.

It's worth noting that even atomic clocks run on Mars faster than on Earth, due to the different gravity. So you might expect say half of the 50 microsecond daily gain quoted in this article for the Moon, 10 miliseconds per year or a full second per century, more than enough to make you your spaceship completely miss its intended orbit. And martians will definitely want to run their own atomic clocks, making sync very problematic.

So TAI is not the end all for what I expect to be a very complicated technical problem.

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#247
post #8

I would be happy if we got rid of timezones, got rid of daylight savings time, and got rid of 12 hour clocks.

I was thinking getting rid of timezones would be crazy, but I work at a globe spanning all remote company and any time anyone discusses times it's always in UTC because everyone's in a different time zone and have no idea what each other's timezones are.

So I guess I'm in the "this could work" camp.

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#248
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With timezones: * I want to call my friend in Germany. What time is it for her? I guess I'm UTC-7 and she's UTC+1, so she's 8 hours ahead of me. I know that everybody around the world typically wakes up between 6 and 9 AM and goes to sleep between 8 PM and midnight, and she's an early bird, so she should be awake. * They said the meeting was going to be at 8 o'clock, but they are in a different time zone, did they me…

Yeah, I hate timezones with a passion but the more I think about them, the more I recognize they're the least bad option available. They correctly optimize for making most common cases trivial, while rare cases relatively easy. I think it needs to be said here: cross-timezone scheduling and datetime math are extremely rare relative to people's daily experience. It may not be obvious to us here, because we're much mor…

I have no issues with timezones at all. Morning will be in the morning (as per the clock), wherever you are, and timezones are reasonably well defined. Without timezones you would still need a system defining what the local equivalent of "morning" or "evening" or "working hours" is, in whatever town the person you're calling is in - and I feel we'll be going back to how things worked before the railway chaos forced the introduction of timezones.

What I hate is DST. That's not only useless, it's problematic. Heck, my old mother never managed to handle the change this last fall, in her nursing home - meals didn't come at the optimal time, she got undernourished, it destroyed her sleep cycles, and her health went all downhill.

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#249
post #152

"Clocks run faster on the moon than on Earth, gaining about 56 microseconds each day, the space agency said". I have no technical knowledge about clocks at all, but this sentence sounds odd to me, shouldn't there be a lot of different clock technologies that work in different ways? Or are they saying this because there is only one "best" technology for NASA purposes and that one is off by 56 us on the moon?

It's a physics thing which affects all clocks. According to special relativity clocks on the Moon will run slower because the moon is orbiting the Earth, so the clock has a higher relative speed. However, general relativity says the clock will run faster , because the Moon has a smaller gravitational field than Earth. In this case the second effect will dominate, so even a perfect clock will run faster: it's not the…

Do you think there are any physical phenomena that can be used that might be sensitive to relativistic effects? Something like a quartz crystal that actually vibrates at different speeds depending on how dilated the current reference frame is? Maybe something external, like if our sun would be emitting some sort of signal at a regular interval that everyone could sync up against.

I wonder if, in the future, we will have a group of timekeeping satellites orbiting our sun. Maybe their orbit could be tweaked to have identical time dilation to Earth, and everyone can just sync off that.

Maybe we can derive some time keeping mechanism from the black hole at the center of our galaxy, or maybe we will just realize that our obsession with timekeeping is a silly terrestrial habit, and not really important at scale.

Re: Europe pushing for lunar time zone

#250
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the world becomes more global, coordinating with people in other times zones will become the norm, not the exception. I expect time zones will fade away then. No need to rush it prematurely though

I cannot imagine a world where "the norm" of human interaction would be with people in other times zones.

Huh? For me it is, and has been like that for a very long time. I work with various customers throughout the day, and they are in various different timezones. When I'm not working I almost daily interact with family, again different timezone. I am always aware of various timezones.
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