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OpenAI's Foundry leaked pricing says a lot

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Re: OpenAI's Foundry leaked pricing says a lot

#201
post #7

The Foundry pricing, $78,000 for a few months minimum, is absolutely the opposite of Open. It could completely kill my small startup if the API goes from less than a penny per request to requiring a huge up-front investment. It means that anyone bootstrapping is now locked out.

This answers the question I’ve had. How do they make money? It was naive to think we could have all this innovation for a penny. Someone has to pay those bills. How does Bing plan to monetize searches that go through their even more advanced ChatGPT? Humans will be repulsed by ads in the middle of their answer from a sentient feeling AI. Numbers I’ve seen is that ChatGPT searches will cost 10x a Google search. How do…

> Humans will be repulsed by ads in the middle of their answer from a sentient feeling AI.

Not if you've been on a social network at any point in the last decade. Instagram has been "QVC plus fitness/mental health content" for years. TikTok influencers will provide Personal Finance 101 tips and offer $100 in free trading credits from some crypto exchange.

Re: OpenAI's Foundry leaked pricing says a lot

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open access for a fee? Yes. The original point of openAI was to make sure google and facebook don't completely dominate AI and keep their work hidden due to the innovator's dilemma they face. Seems like they've absolutely accomplished that. Yes, they've stretched the meaning of "open" but I don't think they've ever tried to claim they had some sort of open source aspirations.

They claimed a lot of things. Open source, non-profit. Then they changed their minds on all of them. As for open access, that's usually defined as free of charge. E.g open access journals.

It's sort of like how Uber dropped the pseudo-green 'ride-sharing' language from its marketing as soon as they had enough investor $ and brand recognition to cut out taxis with predatory pricing.

Re: OpenAI's Foundry leaked pricing says a lot

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not even the important point. ChatGPT can't do anything. It exhibits behavior that was already encapsulated into the semantics of language itself. The only behavior ChatGPT has is to generate semantic continuations from its implicit language model. Every other behavior is a feature of language, not of ChatGPT. Even if ChatGPT could exhibit a passing exam, that would be the feature of carefully curated language…

If a human passed the bar exam, it is because he trained for it and the knowledge is encoded in his brain. The distinction you're trying to make doesn't exist. ChatGPT is what it can do.

The distinction may not be obvious, but it is there.

The reason it is not obvious is that nearly everything you have heard about ChatGPT itself is wrong. The first thing people do to explain what ChatGPT is and does is to personify it. From then on, they are talking about ChatGPT personified, and not ChatGPT as it literally exists. The second thing people do is draw conclusions about the nature and behavior of ChatGPT itself from the narrative they are telling about ChatGPT personified. It's a case of mistaken identity.

ChatGPT has a "brain", but the context that "brain" interacts with is semantics not symbolics.

A human, when answering a question, interprets the symbols present in the language, then considers them logically. Finally, they formulate an answer, and express that answer with more symbols.

ChatGPT does none of that. ChatGPT doesn't even know what sentences, punctuation, or even words are. The only subjects ChatGPT has in mind are short groups of characters: the tokens from the lexical analysis step.

ChatGPT reads those tokens (groups of characters) in order, and generates an implicit model from them. That model is like a map: each token is a feature in the landscape.

When ChatGPT gets a prompt, it tokenizes it, then checks the map for the closest match. Then it starts at that location, and steps forward, writing out what it sees along the way.

That's everything that "ChatGPT as it literally exists" can do. So where does all the behavior come from?

It's the content in the map. It's in language itself. ChatGPT's behavior is limited to interacting with that map, but the effect of interacting with that map is where we get all the interesting behavior.

Language does not simply encode data: it also encodes instructions and logical relationships. By simply walking through text and feeling the semantic landscape, ChatGPT exhibits the behavior that was already encoded into the symbolic meaning of that text. It accomplished this implicitly without ever defining the meaning of any symbol. It doesn't even know what a symbol is in the first place!

So when ChatGPT exhibits the behavior of a person writing correct answers to an exam, it is not behaving like a person at all. It's not interpreting the questions or finding the answers. Instead, it is simply filling the hole in the story with the semantic landscape it sees nearby. If the result is to place answer after question, that is because that data is already present in the training text that ChatGPT was modeled around.

Because of this distinction, we can have a much better understanding of what ChatGPT is and isn't capable of. Because language itself holds the features of truth and lie, mistake and success, elegance and verbosity, love and hate, logic and fallacy, defined and abstract, ambiguous and unambiguous, etc. all equal, ChatGPT must rely on the implementation of language - what was written in the first place - to exhibit behaviors we want it to exhibit.

But there is a critical flaw in that. Language allows, and even depends on, ambiguity. The context that resolves ambiguity can exist in many semantic shapes, so a model cannot be guaranteed to choose the semantic content that contains the disambiguation.

We haven't solved the context dependence problem of natural language. We have only moved it. ChatGPT's success is dependent entirely on the content it is given. It cannot change its behavior to improve that system.

Re: OpenAI's Foundry leaked pricing says a lot

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the AI is racist? It’ll probably violate some civil rights law and the company will be sued.

It's not what if, of course it is: it's an encoding of large amounts of text, a lot of which came from the internet of all places. Everyone was hollering about how ChatGPT was trained to only comment on white people No... they trained it to not say heinous things with RLHF. Because a lot of the more vulgar racial comments on the internet tend to target minorities, so the odds of hitting the filter are higher for mino…

Perhaps the judgement on people is to attend grad school?

Re: OpenAI's Foundry leaked pricing says a lot

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone who thinks this is a problem has never managed flesh-and-blood employees, and especially not minimum wage ones. I’ve worked with minimum wage employees. I’ve even worked with people who insist against all evidence and questioning that basic facts about reality like the year are contrary to known reality. I’ve never in my now very aging career worked with any such person who can influence billions of people b…

I worked with people ranging from minimum wage to absurd salaries, read SVPs. And the latter group was by far more prone to ignore the actual year, color of the sky or wether water is wet than the former. The former is usually also better at following basic instructions and processes. Judging from where I stand atm, I guess the SVP kind of functions are easier to replace by ChatGPT (writting pointless emails ignoring…

Actual value has always been created by the workers not the capital holding class, so that makes sense

Re: OpenAI's Foundry leaked pricing says a lot

#207

> In short, anything for which there is an established, documented, the standard operating procedure will be transformed first. Work that requires original thought, sophisticated reasoning, and advanced strategy will be much less affected in the immediate term. then goes on to say that programmers are next.

I do believe that too, at least in the sense of programmers as the 99% working on trivial CRUD apps, which includes pretty much all of us at a given period of their career.

Future engineers will need to up their ante, I suppose. Maybe this was overdue?

Re: OpenAI's Foundry leaked pricing says a lot

#208
post #45

phoning customer support is already painful when there's a human on the end a bot that gives sometimes random answers seems like a particularly cruel form of torture to inflict on your customers

I would anticipate the application of this technology might be bi-directional. Why wait in a queue myself when I can use an AI to book my appointment for me or cancel my subscription for me?

Re: OpenAI's Foundry leaked pricing says a lot

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many jurisdictions that kind of subtle product placement is not legal.

How do you prove that it happens and is not an artifact of the training data?

"I didn't type that, your honor, my cat walked over the keyboard" is just as high-quality a defense as "it was the AI who did it, your honor".

Re: OpenAI's Foundry leaked pricing says a lot

#210
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the ChatGTP announcement: "ChatGTP is a sibling model to Instruct GPT" The paper for that is linked from https://openai.com/research/instruction-following

The InstructGPT paper only explains the RLHF part of how ChatGPT works. There's reason to believe that isn't enough to achieve ChatGPT's performance and behaviour (e.g. [1]). There are other components that make ChatGPT more powerful, and OpenAPI is not being open about them. [1] https://yaofu.notion.site/How-does-GPT-Obtain-its-Ability-Tr...

I don't think that conclusion is clear at all. Indeed your own link has things they thought were unclear struck and and parts of the InstructGPT paper that explains them inserted.

They do have newer models that aren't generally available that are different though.

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