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Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

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Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#111

Post by Hermitian909 »

Ekaros wrote: post #97
jmathai wrote: post #17

As a California resident, I'm surprised there's no mention of % of ESL (english as a second language) students. There's a very large population of ESL students in California that drag down these statistics as the students catch up. If english isn't your primary language, learning math that is taught in english will also be more difficult.

So why not teach them in their primary language? It is not like big groups are too small... And there is no official language. So mandating that selected number of schools including universities receiving public funding must have sufficient classes and courses in some other language should be entirely possible.

There was a push to make all schools in California teach in both Spanish and English back in the eighties. The backlash was so great that it was made illegal for public schools to teach in anything but English.

Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#112

Post by Scubabear68 »

Arkhaine_kupo wrote: post #52
bmitc wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's "normal", isn't the conclusion then that the normal is not good? The threshold is extremely low already, and that only 50% of students are hitting that threshold is concerning to me. It isn't that they aren't capable. It's that the social support structures are not there.

> that only 50% of students are hitting that threshold is concerning to me. Why? I gave it a quick look so perhaps I missed some stuff, but the worst performance was Grade 11 math, where about 55% of students did not meet standards. But as someone who was great a math, and went to do it in Uni etc, I do not think its concerning that 60% of people do not know how to do matrices, calculus, or logic formalism or any of…

These tests are not looking (much) at advanced courses like Calculus.

This is more “what percentage 9th graders can read at a basic 9th grade level”, “what percentage of 3rd graders can multiply and do basic 3rd grade math”.

These numbers should be in the 80-90% range. But they are not. And note: the majority who are performing well below grade level are not failing. They are probably getting C’s and getting promoted to the next grade. Meaning every year they fall farther and farther behind.

Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#113

Post by HardlyCurious »

Ekaros wrote: post #97
jmathai wrote: post #17

As a California resident, I'm surprised there's no mention of % of ESL (english as a second language) students. There's a very large population of ESL students in California that drag down these statistics as the students catch up. If english isn't your primary language, learning math that is taught in english will also be more difficult.

So why not teach them in their primary language? It is not like big groups are too small... And there is no official language. So mandating that selected number of schools including universities receiving public funding must have sufficient classes and courses in some other language should be entirely possible.

Probably because it creates problems. You need math teachers who speak that language for one. Then you divide the student body, probably along racial lines for the most part, which isn't a good thing. And then lastly, it will only hinder the language development of the ESL group which will come back to bite them later in life.

Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#114

Post by RHSeeger »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #44
bmitc wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's "normal", isn't the conclusion then that the normal is not good? The threshold is extremely low already, and that only 50% of students are hitting that threshold is concerning to me. It isn't that they aren't capable. It's that the social support structures are not there.

Why? Because they used the phrase “grade level” to describe their threshold? This metric appears to be defined as “greater than the median scoring when the metric was first established.” This years results are a little less than before the pandemic but greater than when the metric was established. It appears you can’t compare this to any other state or region, so by what measure is it “not good?” The term grade level…

I think your point is fairly solid. If you rephrase this to "just less than half the students in CA read or do math at the average level for their grade, in their state", the response should be "well, duh?".

Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#115

Post by peterfirefly »

zozbot234 wrote: post #94
cm2012 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copy and pasting from elsewhere in the thread: Some schools being above grade level has nothing to do with teaching methodology, and everything to do with student composition. Smart people who raise their kids to do well in school move to neighborhoods with better schools, which raises the grade levels. Ex: I went to Bronx Science, a specialized high school in NYC where 98% of the students are above grade level and g…

The "good students attract good teachers" factor is also why tracking is a terrible idea. It means that students who have "tracked" lower at any point in their schooling are then stuck with the worst quality teachers and cannot catch up to average standards.

Does it help a struggling student if the teaching is 1) too fast and 2) based on things the student hasn't learned in previous years?

Of course tracking is a good idea.

Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#116

Post by troupe »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #44
bmitc wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's "normal", isn't the conclusion then that the normal is not good? The threshold is extremely low already, and that only 50% of students are hitting that threshold is concerning to me. It isn't that they aren't capable. It's that the social support structures are not there.

Why? Because they used the phrase “grade level” to describe their threshold? This metric appears to be defined as “greater than the median scoring when the metric was first established.” This years results are a little less than before the pandemic but greater than when the metric was established. It appears you can’t compare this to any other state or region, so by what measure is it “not good?” The term grade level…

I think you are bringing up a key point. Probably the most important thing is whether we are getting better or worse. If kids 20 years ago were better able to do math in 8th grade than kids this year, it may indicate a very real problem. If we are are basically saying that not every kid is in the top 20% of what we want them to achieve, that will probably always be true. Not everyone is going to always make an A.

Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#117

Post by baby »

fatcat500 wrote: post #68

A population of ignorant and illiterate peasants is great for maximizing political capital. They are receptive to propaganda. They are an energetic bloc of voters. They know something is wrong, but are too ineffective to correctly identify the problem, which means politicians will continually entice them with "solutions" that solve nothing but increase the political or financial capital of interested parties. We're h…

I agree that education is extremely important to fight against social attacks. I would still add that I know a LOT of very intelligent people who are also extremely intolerant (think racism, antisemitism, homophobic, etc.)

I’ve yet to understand how this phenomena continues to persist in spite of education levels continuing to grow.

One of my current theory is that face to face interaction, especially between different types of people, is a requirement. And the wave of fascism that we see is due to face-to-face interaction going to an ATL during covid.

Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#118

Post by nhchris »

WoahNoun wrote: post #32
bmmayer1 wrote: post #18

The failure of public education in this country is a national scandal. It should be the number one concern of everyone, and yet there's no outrage, no political wedge issue, no media -- what's going on?

Public schools are heavily funded by property taxes. So schools in upper middle class and above areas are (usually) pretty great while schools and low income areas are (usually) pretty not great.

This is a common but false claim. Property tax funding is supplemented by state and federal taxes to compensate disparities:

https://www.heritage.org/education/report/the-myth-racial-di...

on average, both Black and Latinx total per pupil expenditures exceed White total per pupil expenditures by $229.53 and $126.15, respectively [total per-pupil funding is around $14k, so the differences are negligible] - https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/23328584198724...

And the US spends more than average per pupil - more than Belgium, the Netherlands, Sweden, Germany, Finland, and Japan: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cmd

Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#119

Post by jmathai »

WalterBright wrote: post #75
jmathai wrote: post #17

As a California resident, I'm surprised there's no mention of % of ESL (english as a second language) students. There's a very large population of ESL students in California that drag down these statistics as the students catch up. If english isn't your primary language, learning math that is taught in english will also be more difficult.

> If english isn't your primary language, learning math that is taught in english will also be more difficult. Having been in a German school for several months where I did not know German, the only subject I did well in was math. I'm not so sure your assertion is correct.

Surely you would have had an easier time if the teacher taught in German.

Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#120

Post by [deleted] »

cm2012 wrote: post #103
fatcat500 wrote: post #68

A population of ignorant and illiterate peasants is great for maximizing political capital. They are receptive to propaganda. They are an energetic bloc of voters. They know something is wrong, but are too ineffective to correctly identify the problem, which means politicians will continually entice them with "solutions" that solve nothing but increase the political or financial capital of interested parties. We're h…

You really think the school system is bad because the entire cadre of school administrators are taking secret orders from shadowy politicians to keep kids dumb? I recommend you rethink the logical process that brought you to this conclusion.

[deleted]
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