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Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

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Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#81

Post by Xeoncross »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #59
jmathai wrote: post #17

As a California resident, I'm surprised there's no mention of % of ESL (english as a second language) students. There's a very large population of ESL students in California that drag down these statistics as the students catch up. If english isn't your primary language, learning math that is taught in english will also be more difficult.

No. California does not have a large Black immigrant population. The Black population speaks English and does worse than the average (including ESL students). Language alone doesn't explain the gap. Particularly since immigrant Asian groups are above average.

In California, ESL students are primarily from Mexico. The sum of all other immigrants combined is not even close to this number. 40% of the CA population is Hispanic and Latino. I think that is what the parent was speaking about.

Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#82

Post by TheMagicHorsey »

I don't think this is going to change. I have kids in school in California. Most of the parents in my middle class neighborhood also went through public schools, and they have completely wrong ideas about how to improve academic performance. The only parents I agree with are parents from China, Singapore, Taiwan, India etc. But most of them are moving out of public schools and into private schools. So I'm mostly stuck with parents who themselves can't do math properly, so they complain about things like Common Core without understanding what the purpose is.

Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#83

Post by Spivak »

Scubabear68 wrote: post #42

In our rural public school in NJ, both our kids were routinely socially promoted with B’a and C’s even though they were very below average on State testing. We tried fighting this but the inertia of “do nothing and pass anyway” was too great. When we moved them to private school last year (5th and 9th grade), they had a brutal adjustment period of catching up from being so far behind, and for learning studying habits…

> We tried fighting this but the inertia of “do nothing and pass anyway” was too great.

It's because there's no story for what to do in this case. All schools, even good ones, only focus on the happy path. I mean you're basically describing the problem perfectly when you moved your kid to a private school. They're not getting a more personalized education, the expectations are just higher. School is still a train that keeps moving whether you're at the level or not.

Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#84

Post by cm2012 »

Scubabear68 wrote: post #78
cm2012 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not much the education system can do here. When you look into educational research its grim - its really really hard to move the needle even a few % on outcomes in a school system, even with large grants and volunteers and special projects. Kids on the bottom half of the bell curve, especially without parental support, are always going to struggle at school.

I disagree. There are known “good” and “bad” school districts. The known good school districts have better teachers and teaching methods. This is not about the bell curve, it’s about a lot of US schools not actually teaching students successfully.

Copy and pasting from elsewhere in the thread:

Some schools being above grade level has nothing to do with teaching methodology, and everything to do with student composition. Smart people who raise their kids to do well in school move to neighborhoods with better schools, which raises the grade levels.

Ex: I went to Bronx Science, a specialized high school in NYC where 98% of the students are above grade level and go to college. The principal at the time was known to be an obvious subject of nepotism and generally made poor decisions often. The guidance department was a joke. Teachers were above average because schools full of smart kids attract smart teachers, but not so amazing that they'd make up for kids who started below grade level if there were any.

My wife actually went to the same high school and got depression, she dropped out of BX Science and went to a much lesser rated school. The teachers there were actually better in many ways (more organized, better processes, really useful classes on work skills and stuff were available for seniors due to grants) but the students were still generally below grade level and less than 1/3 went to college according to the stats. She was effortlessly at the top of her class even though she was severely depressed and missed days all the time.

Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#85

Post by WalterBright »

WoahNoun wrote: post #32
bmmayer1 wrote: post #18

The failure of public education in this country is a national scandal. It should be the number one concern of everyone, and yet there's no outrage, no political wedge issue, no media -- what's going on?

Public schools are heavily funded by property taxes. So schools in upper middle class and above areas are (usually) pretty great while schools and low income areas are (usually) pretty not great.

A blackboard and chalk do not need heavy funding.

The classes I learned the most at in university consisted of a professor, a blackboard, and chalk.

Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#86

Post by amelius »

ketzo wrote: post #73
WalterBright wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When there's no incentive for the teachers and schools to get kids to grade level, they aren't. I've proposed before having a bonus to the teacher for every student that reaches grade level at the end of the year.

Tennessee did a version of this, and had to fire a huge number of teachers because they were just straight-up giving their students the answers to state-level test. Not saying incentives are totally the wrong approach, but they're also easily gamed, especially in the hands of people who are already criminally underpaid and overworked.

I think the solution to this problem is rather obvious.

(Let other teachers grade the students)

Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#87

Post by listless »

cm2012 wrote: post #45
bmitc wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's "normal", isn't the conclusion then that the normal is not good? The threshold is extremely low already, and that only 50% of students are hitting that threshold is concerning to me. It isn't that they aren't capable. It's that the social support structures are not there.

There's not much the education system can do here. When you look into educational research its grim - its really really hard to move the needle even a few % on outcomes in a school system, even with large grants and volunteers and special projects. Kids on the bottom half of the bell curve, especially without parental support, are always going to struggle at school.

Malcom Gladwell covers this in Outliers. There is something that can be done, but it has to be done starting in pre-school and continuing through second grade. And that "something" is that you don't get a summer. You learn year round for those first few years. The reason why some kids excel and some don't is almost entirely because they don't get continuing education at home. And past 2nd grade, it's almost irreparable.

We can fix it. But we have to retool primary education significantly. And "retooling education" isn't something that is ever going to happen in the current setup.

Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#88

Post by latchkey »

Scubabear68 wrote: post #42

In our rural public school in NJ, both our kids were routinely socially promoted with B’a and C’s even though they were very below average on State testing. We tried fighting this but the inertia of “do nothing and pass anyway” was too great. When we moved them to private school last year (5th and 9th grade), they had a brutal adjustment period of catching up from being so far behind, and for learning studying habits…

Not just that, but the food we give to these kids is horrible.

I know that he is a bit contrived in his methodologies, but you watch enough of his shows that you can see the adult behavior reactions to his methods, it is clear that nothing is ever going to change...

https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/jamie-oliver-is-his-...

Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#89

Post by thebooktocome »

Scubabear68 wrote: post #42

In our rural public school in NJ, both our kids were routinely socially promoted with B’a and C’s even though they were very below average on State testing. We tried fighting this but the inertia of “do nothing and pass anyway” was too great. When we moved them to private school last year (5th and 9th grade), they had a brutal adjustment period of catching up from being so far behind, and for learning studying habits…

Teachers’ unions are basically ineffective outside of large liberal cities (NYC, Chicago, Seattle). Their ability to “protect lousy teachers”, as you put it, has already been gutted. As a side-effect, they’re also now incapable of retaining exceptional teachers.

Re: Less than half of California students read or do math at grade level

#90

Post by Xeoncross »

Scubabear68 wrote: post #42

In our rural public school in NJ, both our kids were routinely socially promoted with B’a and C’s even though they were very below average on State testing. We tried fighting this but the inertia of “do nothing and pass anyway” was too great. When we moved them to private school last year (5th and 9th grade), they had a brutal adjustment period of catching up from being so far behind, and for learning studying habits…

The north east has some of the longest-standing cultures of bureaucracy and corruption in the US. I would not expect anything above average from these locations. As you mention, there is to much inertia and precedent in these regions.

If you can, move somewhere else. I've never heard anything good from the city management or education systems in the oldest parts of the nation.

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