My god, other animals besides us have the capacity for empathy. I thought humans were the only creatures in the universe that had the potential for emotion or intelligence. Mind blowing.
Rodents exhibit empathy by setting trapped friends free
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Re: Rodents exhibit empathy by setting trapped friends free
#12The easier way to determine if humans are the only species who have empathy... Talk to any dog owner.
All that will tell you is that humans will anthropomorphize anything. I would agree with the dog owner, but then you sometimes hear owners of non-social animals (e.g. snakes, octopuses) claiming their pets have empathy. A few people even claim their cars have empathy.
My car loves me. I'm serious, it's like it knows that I take really good care of it and try not to overwork it when I can. You should see how it responds to my touch far better than any one else's when I'm driving it in the mountains or in inclement conditions.
I can tell when it's happy because it's purring, and when it's working too hard it groans and squeals instead. It lets me know when its hungry (oil change indicator), thirsty (windshield wiper indicator), sick (service needed indicator), or just plain out of breath (low tire pressure indicator).
I don't understand how some people can be so cruel and say that it can't think and feel for itself. They think just because a human built the machine that built this car, that they're automatically superior to it. They just won't take the time to listen.
I used to be like that, but one time... I killed a car. It was by accident and I really didn't mean to do it, but the sounds it was making when it was dying; oh god, the sounds. You would know cars can feel and understand if you heard them.
Re: Rodents exhibit empathy by setting trapped friends free
#13My question is: why don't we show more empathy towards animals? The experimentations and vivisections, urban sprawl and deforestation, the abandonment of pets when they become inconvenient - we as humans don't consider the cruelty of our actions. We figure as long as it can be profited from or paved over, it's justifiable. It's not. One day mankind will grieve because of the suffering we have caused animals. But by t…
We do all of those things to Humans too, it's not that we don't show empathy to animals, we don't show it to anything.
Rat 1, Human 0 ?
Re: Rodents exhibit empathy by setting trapped friends free
#14I set a mouse trap yesterday morning and last night went to check on it. The mouse that was caught in it was pretty much gone from being eaten by another mouse (which I'm guessing is the one that I caught this morning). I guess nobody told them about this study.
Mice are pretty much just herbivores. I think you might something other than just mice to worry about...
Re: Rodents exhibit empathy by setting trapped friends free
#15My question is: why don't we show more empathy towards animals? The experimentations and vivisections, urban sprawl and deforestation, the abandonment of pets when they become inconvenient - we as humans don't consider the cruelty of our actions. We figure as long as it can be profited from or paved over, it's justifiable. It's not. One day mankind will grieve because of the suffering we have caused animals. But by t…
The same cognitive dissonance arises when talking about collateral damage of capitalism: "well, that sucks, but capitalism is good, so it's not responsible for those effects." Empathy is the antithesis of power. That's why it will always be the exception in humans.
> The same cognitive dissonance arises when talking about collateral damage of capitalism: "well, that sucks, but capitalism is good, so it's not responsible for those effects."
Are you referring to the Halo Effect? (http://lesswrong.com/lw/lj/the_halo_effect/)
Edit: I don't think I meant the Halo Effect - there was another kind of bias I read about on lesswrong.com, but I cannot find it.
Re: Rodents exhibit empathy by setting trapped friends free
#16My question is: why don't we show more empathy towards animals? The experimentations and vivisections, urban sprawl and deforestation, the abandonment of pets when they become inconvenient - we as humans don't consider the cruelty of our actions. We figure as long as it can be profited from or paved over, it's justifiable. It's not. One day mankind will grieve because of the suffering we have caused animals. But by t…
Why do we show any empathy towards animals? You can't kill and eat something you empathise with. Empathy towards humans makes sense but I don't see the evolutionary advantage of treasuring all life.
That said, I can't even kill spiders. It doesn't make any sense but I've an unavoidable feeling of guilt if I don't release them outside unharmed. Yet I have no problem eating meat. My empathy is irrational.
Re: Rodents exhibit empathy by setting trapped friends free
#17I set a mouse trap yesterday morning and last night went to check on it. The mouse that was caught in it was pretty much gone from being eaten by another mouse (which I'm guessing is the one that I caught this morning). I guess nobody told them about this study.
Mice are pretty much just herbivores. I think you might something other than just mice to worry about...
I think he meant that the mouse was eaten by a rat. Rats are much bigger and hunt, kill and eat the similar but smaller mice.
In fact there is a term for it: muricide.
Rats also practice infanticide.
So, yeah rodent morality is also complex.
Re: Rodents exhibit empathy by setting trapped friends free
#18My question is: why don't we show more empathy towards animals? The experimentations and vivisections, urban sprawl and deforestation, the abandonment of pets when they become inconvenient - we as humans don't consider the cruelty of our actions. We figure as long as it can be profited from or paved over, it's justifiable. It's not. One day mankind will grieve because of the suffering we have caused animals. But by t…
Because an "empathy-towards-animals" gene would not improve reproductive success. And although we are capable of transcending our genes, it's not something we do by default.
Re: Rodents exhibit empathy by setting trapped friends free
#19Very interesting page on rat social behavior: http://www.ratbehavior.org/norway_rat_ethogram.htm#SocialBeh...
Re: Rodents exhibit empathy by setting trapped friends free
#20That doesn't necessarily show empathy. In a dangerous environment, for instance, it can be better to have others around to lessen your individual risk. It could be freeing the trapped rat in the hope that when the big nasty humans come back they will pick the other rat.
I don't see why empathy and pragmatism have to be mutually exclusive. You can think of empathy as a heuristic for choosing an optimal action: in a lot of cases, one way or another, helping out a fellow rat is beneficial, so empathy is an advantage. Especially as a rat, you don't have the capacity or time to use a significantly more accurate method to choose an action anyhow.