ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content • Hacker News Board

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#161

Post by Peaker » Sun, Jan 22, 2012, 11:03 PM UTC

jrkotrla wrote: post #152

cdr wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an authority is convinced there's a hidden volume with information they want and that you are not providing access, having arbitrary hidden volumes is not doing you any good legally in the US and likely elsewhere. There are technical and non-technical ways to determine the probable presence of hidden volumes. Hidden volumes do not provide plausible deniability. Might hidden volumes help you pass a cursory check? S…

wonderful thing about encrypted information, with the right key it can be decrypted to say whatever you want. So if government has decided that you have plans for the al Qaeda attack on your laptop... well, you do. Now all that you have to do is prove that you either don't know or have forgotten the key that decrypts your random bits into a plan they will accept. How hard do you think it will be to convince an aggres…

Only with a one-time pad?

A small key does not contain enough information to make the data decrypt to any arbitrary thing.

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#162

Post by tkahn6 » Sun, Jan 22, 2012, 11:20 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #159

tkahn6 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kristalnacht, 'Der Ewige Jew', Triumph of the Will, the death camps and concentration camps, these were all concerted campaigns against the 'undesirables' of Germany in order to promote racial purity. You have given examples of parallels to these things but there is no commonality of purpose behind them. 'Der Ewige Jude' was not a campaign to create a 'common enemy' or hoodwink the German people as I assume you belie…

I don't think there is much commonality of purpose with many of the legal/governmental trends today, other than acting out of fear of some perceived bogeyman (though not necessarily the same one in each case) or in the interests of a powerful minority at the expense of the majority (ditto). Still, it doesn't matter to a black kid in London whether he's being excessively hassled because a senior officer made an active…

So the only difference between Western governments and the Nazis is a matter of scale and your evidence for this is that Western governments are abusing their power.

All governments past and present abuse their power. Sometimes in large ways. Sometimes in small ways. That alone is not sufficient to warrant a comparison to Nazi Germany which carries more historical baggage than it's clear you realize.

You are cheapening your position by resorting to hyperbole.

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#163

Post by lunarscape » Sun, Jan 22, 2012, 11:30 PM UTC

VMG wrote: post #155

lunarscape wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How many border protection agents look into your /etc/fstab and know fdisk, mount and cryptsetup? They don't need to. Microsoft and other companies have been providing software on bootable CDs and USB keys to do quick 'security' audits of PCs for years to various police forces. I'd be extremely surprised if detecting encrypted/hidden partitions wasn't a common feature.

it would be very useful to know exactly what tools and techniques the border agents are using. Is there software that detect HDDs that are disabled via BIOS? Do the border agents reset the BIOS? Are they looking at individual files and encrypted archives?

I don't know the capabilities. I'm sure the best ones are kept secret obviously. One MS tool was leaked online but turned out to be nothing special: http://www.microsoft.com/industry/government/solutions/cofee...

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#164

Post by venusaur » Sun, Jan 22, 2012, 11:50 PM UTC

I'm travelling to the states next week. I have a lot of pirated content (books and music) on my hidden encrypted partition on my laptop and external HD. Should I be worried, and what are my options if I do get stopped? (I'm actually a regular user - this is a throwaway account for obvious reasons).

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#165

Post by dotBen » Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 12:05 AM UTC

tlrobinson wrote: post #92

coryl wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a lawyer here, but I've heard some BS laws about encryption. In some cases if you refuse to decrypt or are unable, you can be at fault and still be detained. Needs citation though.

TrueCrypt hidden volumes are one solution: http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/?s=hidden-volume

No they're not for any kind of border or government interaction... everyone really must stop perpetuating this.

It's a federal crime to lie to a border agent or government agent, and the EFF specifically says not to do this - see comment above.

Hidden volumes are fine for other uses and perhaps in other jurisdictions but will land you in hot water in the US/US Border.

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#166

Post by gasull » Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 12:24 AM UTC

derleth wrote: post #142

gasull wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Communism (Stalinism), all the enterprises are owned by the Government. In Fascism the Government is owned by (some of) the corporations.

> In Fascism the Government is owned by (some of) the corporations. No, in Fascism the government owns the corporations and uses them to control society.

Not according to Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_fascism#General_c...

> "the State pays for the blunders of private enterprise... Profit is private and individual. Loss is public and social."

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#167

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 12:34 AM UTC

freejack wrote: post #69

freejack wrote: post #57

This particular wikipedia article focuses more on the development of ACTA, and public comment and rumour during its development, than it does on the actual text of ACTA, a public document. I haven't read the actual text, and I imagine that the issue of whether or not ACTA will force border searches is definitively answered by the treaty itself. The Wikipedia passage in question appears to have been written in respons…

I've done some more reading since, and my arm-chair legal review seems to indicate that most, if not all, search and seizure happening in this area is due to U.S. policy and legislation and not ACTA. i.e. DHS, etc. have their own policies rooted in US law that seems to permit this type of search and seizure. I didn't do a thorough analysis, nor am I am lawyer, nor am I an ACTA supporter, and I think that the wikipedi…

[deleted]

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#168

Post by ctchocula » Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 12:40 AM UTC

venusaur wrote: post #164

I'm travelling to the states next week. I have a lot of pirated content (books and music) on my hidden encrypted partition on my laptop and external HD. Should I be worried, and what are my options if I do get stopped? (I'm actually a regular user - this is a throwaway account for obvious reasons).

I'm not an expert on this, but judging from the discussion above based on the EFF guide, it sounds like hidden partitions aren't recommended. The consensus seems to be that they may have ways of detecting hidden partitions and may ask you if you have any, placing you in a situation where you have to decide whether or not to lie to them. If you do, you could get busted for lying. If you don't lie, then it's the same as having full-disk encryption except it's slightly more suspicious and you'll be in the situation where you're not obliged to tell them the password, but they will take it into consideration in deciding whether or not to let you into the US.

I don't know how long you're planning to stay in the States, but it might be wise to bring an empty laptop and certainly not an external HD if it's for a short visit.

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#169

Post by nl » Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 12:47 AM UTC

dotBen wrote: post #165

tlrobinson wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TrueCrypt hidden volumes are one solution: http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/?s=hidden-volume

No they're not for any kind of border or government interaction... everyone really must stop perpetuating this. It's a federal crime to lie to a border agent or government agent, and the EFF specifically says not to do this - see comment above. Hidden volumes are fine for other uses and perhaps in other jurisdictions but will land you in hot water in the US/US Border.

I think you are overstating the problems with hidden volumes.

The EFF advice is as follows:

Although TrueCrypt hidden volumes may have some practical applications, we think they are unlikely to be useful in the border search context because they are most helpful when lying to someone about whether there is additional hidden data on a disk. Lying to border agents is not advisable, because it can be a serious crime.

Lying to border agents clearly is a serious offence, but as far as I can see that is the "only" major problem with hidden volumes. Given many of the suggestions so far involve lying to border agents along with weird schemes that are less technically secure than hidden volumes it would appear hidden volumes have two things going for them:

1) No worse than other options (assuming you have to carry data with you somehow)

2) Give you a higher possibility that you won't need to lie to border agents (failing to tell them about your additional layer of security will get you in trouble, but is more defensible in court than outright lying)

Re: ACTA will force border searches of laptops, smartphones for pirated content

#170

Post by ataggart » Mon, Jan 23, 2012, 12:56 AM UTC

mbreese wrote: post #122

pwg wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how on earth has it come to this?? First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak out because I was Protestant. Then they came for me and there was n…

Do you realize how many people will find it offensive that you are using this quote to compare a treaty to the holocaust? There is a big difference between a treaty which may infringe on civil liberties and killing people based on their beliefs or ethnicity. It's okay to make slippery slope arguments, but let's not get into Godwin territory.

I'd recommend reading The Road to Serfdom before continuing down that line of thought.