X12: Requirements for a successor to the X11 protocol (2013)

Post by nine_k » Wed, Mar 01, 2023, 12:49 AM UTC

Bjartr wrote: post #179

vetinari wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is dbus api, and is able to work cross-namespaces (i.e. flatpak containers too). There no harm in using it in non-flatpak apps, at least you will be ready if your app ends up in flatpak. Wrt global shortcuts, I see that there is some work done. The intentional part isn't malice, as in not willing to implement it at all. It is about not implementing temporary solution, that will be quick and dirty, and then being s…

So kind of like Go and generics in that regard

Post by chupasaurus » Wed, Mar 01, 2023, 12:51 AM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #56

oleg_antonyan wrote: post #14

X is almost 40yo, stable, reliable, difficult to maintain. Wayland is 15yo, barely usable. Any old timers remember 1999 when X was 15? Wayland is like IPv6 of desktops

Wayland is the default on RHEL since 2019. Wayland is the default on Centos since 2019. Wayland is the default on Ubuntu and Debian since 2022. In Arch, Wayland is the default for GNOME installs. Wayland is far from "barely usable" And yes, I remember 1999. X was a pain to get working properly with many graphics cards. Some things never change...

Post by nine_k » Wed, Mar 01, 2023, 12:53 AM UTC

dale_glass wrote: post #181

kelnos wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see the parallels. For the past few months I've been investigating and working on porting parts of Xfce to be usable under Wayland. It's astonishing the number of features that are just not implementable at all on Wayland, at least not without inventing new non-standard Wayland protocols. (Another option is refactoring the desktop environment so all the individual components run in the same process as…

> Even if fixing inherent problems in X11 (security, graphics rendering, etc.) would require compatibility breaks, personally I would find that preferable to throwing the entire thing out and having to build (and build on) an entirely new system. Why? X11 in the current state would need to be radically redesigned anyway. There's a bunch of stuff that long stopped making sense, like XDrawLine and similar. The networki…

Post by nine_k » Wed, Mar 01, 2023, 12:56 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #186

messe wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wayland is 15yo, barely usable It's the default on several distros. I regularly play AAA games on my gentoo gaming PC, using proprietary NVIDIA drivers, on KDE Plasma, with little or no performance differences compared to X11. Even the Steam Deck, arguably the most popular linux PC, runs its default UI on Wayland.

A little weird to classify the Steam Deck as a "personal computer". It's a special-purpose handheld gaming device that just happens to run Linux & Wayland under the hood. While I wouldn't call Android phones "personal computers" either, they're much closer to being the "most popular Linux PC" than a Steam Deck is.

Post by throw0101c » Wed, Mar 01, 2023, 12:59 AM UTC

nine_k wrote: post #207

ilyt wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like some parts systemd does but binary format is travesty. And I do not mean "the fact it is binary is bad" but format itself. Example: strace systemctl status haproxy 2>&1 |grep /var/log/journal |wc -l 356 356 files opened (whole logging dir is around 800MB) only to tell me CGroup: /system.slice/haproxy.service ├─2428 /usr/sbin/haproxy -Ws -f /etc/haproxy/haproxy.cfg -p /run/haproxy.pid -S /run/haproxy-master.soc…

Fortunately binary logging can be switched off and redirected to syslog on hosts where have control but can't replace the init system. https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Systemd/Journal#Journald_in...