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Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

thedrive.com

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Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#391

Post by JohnFen »

sliken wrote: post #347
horsawlarway wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the mere capability renders the machine fundamentally untrustworthy. I've said this a couple of times before, but I find it fairly astonishing that we don't have legislation covering what manufacturers are allowed to do to a product with embedded devices after a user has purchased it. I want to be very clear - after I have bought a product, ANY CHANGE WITHOUT MY CONSENT done by the embedded software at the behest o…

You haven't bought a car till you pay for it. If you buy it with a loan the bank owns it, and can restrict your use of it as they see fit.

Not true, at least in my state. If you buy a car with a loan, you own the car and the financer has a lien on it. You unequivocally own the car, though.

The only restrictions that the financer can put on your use of the vehicle are ones that you agreed to in the loan agreement. They can't just restrict your use of it as they see fit -- unless, I suppose, you were foolish enough to sign an agreement allowing them to.

The only restrictions I've ever personally seen have been a requirement to carry comprehensive car insurance for some minimum amount. And, of course, there's a lien on the car so you can't sell it without having the lien removed (typically by repaying the loan).

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#392

Post by version_five »

This is like automatic speed enforcement: the current laws and limits are set up with the understanding that people break them, and that it's not really a big deal. If you want to change that so that they become unbreakable, all the benefit can't accrue to one side. There needs to be a rational compromise. In the case of speed limits, it means having adult ones like in europe. In this case it would mean making the car cheaper (which is obviously way more nebulous). I don't really see a first order problem, I'd pay more to have a car that doesnt allow third party control. The problem is when industry crowds out alternatives so we're all stuck with this, as we already are with all the over computerized crap that goes into cars

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#393

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

mywittyname wrote: post #320
lapetitejort wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go one step further and become a Bicycle Guy. Consider what will still be operational 100 years from now once fossil fuels have dried up and we have fully transitioned into Life As A Service.

The problem with being a "Bicycle Guy" is that people like to run them over...

Here on Long Island, we shmush cyclists for sport.

https://www.bicycling.com/culture/a41119529/the-most-dangero...

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#394

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #213
lostapathy wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The title stays with the lender until all the payments are made per the loan agreement. This varies a lot by state. A lot (most?) states the title absolutely goes to the purchaser but it has a lien attached that gives the lender rights of repossession.

Interesting, I thought it was only sent to you after the final loan payment.

In NY, if you lease the car, you never get the title (unless you buy it out, like I did).

If you purchase it, you get a title with a lien, and you need to have it reissued, after the car is paid.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#395

Post by mistrial9 »

magic_hamster wrote: post #361
HomeDeLaPot wrote: post #358

The problem with this isn't the idea of a car repossessing itself per se, because repossession is already a legitimate thing; it's the idea that your car can be remotely controlled by anyone other than you. There are already so many things that can go wrong. I don't want to buy a car that can be remotely disabled because I drove near a protest, or because there was a "clerical error" at Ford, or because my payment di…

Brace yourself then, because the future of automotive is highly connected, and in many ways it already is. Every car since the early 2000s has computerized components that control everything from power steering to infotainment systems, and your car probably already communicates with some servers using a built in cellular sim. Hackers have been able to compromise cars for at least a couple of decades, and while car ma…

but, you work in certain markets. You likely don't know yourself, that most of the population of the world does not have these things.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#396

Post by JohnFen »

WheatMillington wrote: post #355
lotsofpulp wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you finance a car, the vehicle becomes collateral for a loan, but it belongs to you. The title stays with the lender until all the payments are made per the loan agreement. I would not say the vehicle legally belongs to a borrower until they have possession of the title. > The reason we have laws is so that people have recourse to principle, whereas when you implement something like this in hardware (a car), i…

Perhaps this is true in America where apparently you still have a paper title to indicate ownership?? But under commonwealth law "title" is a legal concept, not a physical document, and can't belong to anyone except the rightful owner. An asset can be used as security collateral without the ownership changing hands.

I believe in most states (I know in mine), there is no longer any paper that you can hold that makes you the owner. The title is just a document showing that you are the owner registered with the motor vehicle department. It doesn't grant you ownership.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#397

Post by dreamcompiler »

rconti wrote: post #375

In college, a roommate of mine was double-parked, or parked in a fire zone, or something, in our 8-house cul-de-sac. He ran upstairs to get something from his room, and a tow truck appeared (this all happened in well under 5 minutes). When he came out, he argued with the tow truck guys a bunch, but they kept hooking up his car and arguing back and couldn't be reasoned with, etc etc. My friend sat on the hood to keep…

In many places where illegal parking is common, tow truck drivers stage close by or hire spotters so they can hook up cars quickly. They can make a lot of money hauling away cars from drivers who only plan to stop for 2 minutes.

https://nyti.ms/3xW9OQX

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#398

Post by version_five »

theRealMe wrote: post #363
mr_00ff00 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Lmao. It’s possible it did happen, but now it makes me realize that the comment is 1 “lesson learned about empathy” away from a cringey linkedin post.

Lol, next week he went for a job interview and the woman living in the trailer was the hiring manager

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#399

Post by JohnFen »

macinjosh wrote: post #11
gwbas1c wrote: post #7

Uhm, it seems like the auto industry is still letting its imagination run away with self driving cars. I don't see how a patent like this can be granted if we still generally don't have working self-driving cars. Even Tesla is getting forced to admit that "Full Self Driving" isn't really full self driving.

I am pretty sure that no one at the patent office cares if your invention works or not.

They do care -- but there is no requirement that you prove it works (such as by providing a working example), so there's lots of room for error and fraud there.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#400

Post by GlacierFox »

eduction wrote: post #383
rconti wrote: post #375

In college, a roommate of mine was double-parked, or parked in a fire zone, or something, in our 8-house cul-de-sac. He ran upstairs to get something from his room, and a tow truck appeared (this all happened in well under 5 minutes). When he came out, he argued with the tow truck guys a bunch, but they kept hooking up his car and arguing back and couldn't be reasoned with, etc etc. My friend sat on the hood to keep…

Maybe a better lesson than “confront / physically endanger the tow truck driver who is doing his job” is “don’t block traffic in an 8 house cul de sac because you wanted to get something from your room but didn’t want to actually bother finding parking.” This all reads like entitled driver behavior to me. Or dumb college antics that are best left behind. -former car owner

former car owner

Couldn't help but get that in there could you.

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