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The 15% Tax Rate

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Re: The 15% Tax Rate

#81
post #27

Income is income is income. If you make over six digits I don't care what the source is, no-one should get a special rate. Because once you hit that level, there is no way you could convince anyone you are "suffering" even if you decided to work 12 hours a day. At that level work is a choice, where the millions making 4 or 5 digits have no choice.

Mid-upper 6 digits, maybe. There are lots of places where you'll have to strictly control your expenses to live on $100k/year.

Re: The 15% Tax Rate

#82
post #6

I would much rather see a completely consumption based tax system. The mortgage interest and charity reductions could easily be left in.

The mortgage interest and charity reductions could easily be left in.

But shouldn't be. Especially mortgage interest; it should be painfully clear by now that blindly encouraging people to buy houses is not a good plan.

Re: The 15% Tax Rate

#83
post #27

Income is income is income. If you make over six digits I don't care what the source is, no-one should get a special rate. Because once you hit that level, there is no way you could convince anyone you are "suffering" even if you decided to work 12 hours a day. At that level work is a choice, where the millions making 4 or 5 digits have no choice.

A person with a 6 figure income supporting a wife and children and the bills that come with supporting a household vs a single person is very different. Also the rent adjusted difference in places where you can make 6 figures can add 30'000 in before tax income needed to just break even between two regions.

Re: The 15% Tax Rate

#84
post #51
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comic, however snarky and cute, manages only to obscure the point further. The (E) [in the comic] is different than other ones, because there's no exchange of goods nor services for the money between the company and its owner, the Shareholder. Let me put it my way: When a plumber puts his knowledge and tools to work, his revenue is taxed once, at personal level. When a shareholder puts his knowledge and money to…

The corporation is a separate legal entity from it's owners, and thus is taxed separately. In step E the good being exchanged is money.

There are other "separate legal entities" like partnerships and S-corps that don't get double taxed. Only corporations have this double taxation. That's why it's unfair.

The philosophy here is that you shouldn't get taxed on dividends because you're an owner... the money was already yours. The plumber didn't have to pay tax again to take his money out of his plumbing business (maybe a limited-liability partnership) and buy DVDs, but the shareholder did.

Re: The 15% Tax Rate

#85
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...Twitter (and google, facebook, etc.) use a bunch of complex tax structures in different countries to legally avoid paying corporate income tax. Yes, many companies use complex tax structures to avoid paying US corporate income taxes on non-US profits. So what? They don't consume any US government services either, and Fred Wilson paid appropriate taxes to whatever nation Twitter Europe lives in. Similarly, my emplo…

>They don't consume any US government services either These sorts of arguments always bother me because they over simplify the complexities of how one benefits from a public good or service. One example would be that Google doesn't have to worry about their engineers getting into a car crash on the way to work because the governments (federal and state) collectively spend billions of dollars ensuring that our roadway…

Obviously Google Inc. consumes US government services. The point is that Google Ireland Inc. probably doesn't. Google Inc. pays its fair share of U.S. corporate tax on domestic revenue, and Google Ireland pays tax in Ireland. Why should Google Ireland's revenue, which never comes into America, be subject to U.S. tax law? They don't rely on U.S. government services, they rely on Irish government services.

Re: The 15% Tax Rate

#86
post #85
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They don't consume any US government services either These sorts of arguments always bother me because they over simplify the complexities of how one benefits from a public good or service. One example would be that Google doesn't have to worry about their engineers getting into a car crash on the way to work because the governments (federal and state) collectively spend billions of dollars ensuring that our roadway…

Obviously Google Inc. consumes US government services. The point is that Google Ireland Inc. probably doesn't. Google Inc. pays its fair share of U.S. corporate tax on domestic revenue, and Google Ireland pays tax in Ireland. Why should Google Ireland's revenue, which never comes into America, be subject to U.S. tax law? They don't rely on U.S. government services, they rely on Irish government services.

Because they are waiting for a tax holiday so that they can repatriate the profit without paying taxes on it.

Re: The 15% Tax Rate

#87
For those who think a flat tax is fair to all, I'm curious if they would still feel that way after playing this game: www.playspent.org

A progressive tax system seems more fair to me (though not perfect) because there is some link to discretionary income.

Re: The 15% Tax Rate

#88
post #86
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously Google Inc. consumes US government services. The point is that Google Ireland Inc. probably doesn't. Google Inc. pays its fair share of U.S. corporate tax on domestic revenue, and Google Ireland pays tax in Ireland. Why should Google Ireland's revenue, which never comes into America, be subject to U.S. tax law? They don't rely on U.S. government services, they rely on Irish government services.

Because they are waiting for a tax holiday so that they can repatriate the profit without paying taxes on it.

Yes, that was a pretty dumb precedent for Bush to set.

Re: The 15% Tax Rate

#90
post #25

> And then I often think of my two brothers who probably pay 40-50% of their income each year in federal, state, and local taxes. It just seems so unfair. If the author really thinks his 28% tax rate is very unfair in light of his two brothers paying 40-50% taxes, he could donate the difference between 28% and 40-50% for himself to the Treasury each year, and effectively be paying a 40-50% rate.

It isn't just unfair that he is paying a lower rate. It is unfair that everyone like him is paying a lower rate. Him donating money will have no effect on the unfairness, only on his guilt. That said, while I benefit personally from the low long term capital gains tax, carried interest is ridiculous.

It seems as if people that consider the system unfair always want others to pay more. This includes wealthy people who want their own tax rates increased (Warren Buffett). They never willingly donate their own money to the government.

In fact, I don't know anyone from any income group willing to donate money to the government.

What is fundamentally unfair is that the government is terrible at 99% of things it tries to do. This affects everyone regardless of their tax rate.

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