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Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

thedrive.com

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Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#331

Post by neuralRiot »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #148
motohagiography wrote: post #41

I work in security and anti-fraud is the use case of last resort for terrible ideas. When you finance a car, the vehicle becomes collateral for a loan, but it belongs to you. A technology like this means that the vehicle still belongs to Ford, which means if something goes wrong with it, or if you get sciatica from their shitty seats, you can class action sue them into oblivion. The reason we have laws is so that peo…

> When you finance a car, the vehicle becomes collateral for a loan, but it belongs to you. The title stays with the lender until all the payments are made per the loan agreement. I would not say the vehicle legally belongs to a borrower until they have possession of the title. > The reason we have laws is so that people have recourse to principle, whereas when you implement something like this in hardware (a car), i…

> Reducing the costs to repossess collateral would reduce borrowing costs, and ultimately help LENDERS WITH HIGHER PROFITS.

FTFY.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#332

Post by chadlavi »

UncleEntity wrote: post #75
lmkg wrote: post #36

Well if this is how the new cars are gonna be, I guess I'll just go ahead and teach myself to be a Car Guy so that the one I have now will run forever. It's not that I'm afraid of missing a payment. At this point I would probably buy the car outright. But after the robo-signing debacle with BoA repossesssing houses that they were never party to, the mere capability renders the machine fundamentally untrustworthy.

I worry more about some hacker type deciding to ddos all the McDonalds by telling the cars that’s where they need to be. Kind of surprised it hasn’t happened yet honestly.

I'm not particularly worried about the well-being of the McDonald's corporation. I'd be more worried, if anything, about some bad actor deciding they want every car on a major interstate to wreck all at once.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#333

Post by spiritplumber »

AlbertCory wrote: post #191

True story: my neighbor's lease payment was under, by a dollar or two, no more. An error in his banking practices, I guess. They came and repossessed it in the middle of the night. He offered to pay, and they wouldn't take a credit card, PayPal, Venmo, Zelle, wire transfer, or any other modern form of payment. No, he had to go to Western Union. Someone who's more up on this sort of stuff can explain that. A week late…

I saw someone's RV getting repossessed over $50 in 2019. They were clearly living in it. I walked over and handed the repo guy $60. He wouldn't take it. This was in a cul de sac. I parked my truck across the way so that it would not be possible to enter or leave the cul de sac. Someone called the cops. The cops showed up after a few minutes, good response time. The lady living in the RV was told that she could not park there anymore. The repo guy said he was taking the RV. I repeated my offer to pay in front of the cop. The repo guy took the $60. I was told to move my truck afterwards. The lady living in the RV never paid me back. I am overall OK with that. These things happen. This was in northern California. Random acts of angry kindness should not be relied upon.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#335

Post by chrisco255 »

spiritplumber wrote: post #333
AlbertCory wrote: post #191

True story: my neighbor's lease payment was under, by a dollar or two, no more. An error in his banking practices, I guess. They came and repossessed it in the middle of the night. He offered to pay, and they wouldn't take a credit card, PayPal, Venmo, Zelle, wire transfer, or any other modern form of payment. No, he had to go to Western Union. Someone who's more up on this sort of stuff can explain that. A week late…

I saw someone's RV getting repossessed over $50 in 2019. They were clearly living in it. I walked over and handed the repo guy $60. He wouldn't take it. This was in a cul de sac. I parked my truck across the way so that it would not be possible to enter or leave the cul de sac. Someone called the cops. The cops showed up after a few minutes, good response time. The lady living in the RV was told that she could not pa…

Aren't repo guys usually just contracted out to do the job and pull the vehicle by the lender? They don't usually have the authority or facilities to take a payment on site.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#336

Post by jessriedel »

gwbas1c wrote: post #7

Uhm, it seems like the auto industry is still letting its imagination run away with self driving cars. I don't see how a patent like this can be granted if we still generally don't have working self-driving cars. Even Tesla is getting forced to admit that "Full Self Driving" isn't really full self driving.

I rode halfway across San Francisco in a self-driving car last week. Seemed to work pretty well.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#337

Post by e_i_pi_2 »

user3939382 wrote: post #308
e_i_pi_2 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My argument is that even without property taxes the land ownership isn't real - someone can have a piece of paper and a government to back them up and say they "own" the land, but ultimately it's not the same as personal property and doesn't make sense to treat the same way. As far as I've seen it's impossible to establish a chain of custody for land ownership that doesn't involve theft and invalidate the current own…

> it's not the same as personal property Do you mean because it's immobile? > it's impossible to establish a chain of custody for land ownership that doesn't involve theft This is a big issue in some places, e.g. I've heard in South Africa, because of legal issues arising out of confiscation when apartheid ended. Not so much in the US. There are some disputes going back to deeds with native Americans but they're very…

> Do you mean because it's immobile?

Yeah I'm talking about personal vs private property, generally defined by movability, so like a house itself is private but the land isn't

> Not so much in the US. There are some disputes going back to deeds with native Americans but they're very rare

I think you're only talking about disputes recognized in the courts, not the actual disputes over the whole land claim which have consistently been there historically

> In the world we live in, no government means people take your stuff, whether it's land or not

Seems like we agree on this point - land ownership comes from the govt who ultimately "owns" all the land (but still through theft or some random claim)

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#338

Post by e_i_pi_2 »

user3939382 wrote: post #68
e_i_pi_2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can easily see the argument for owning personal property like a phone, but how can someone have a true ownership claim over land? For personal property there is a production chain with labor that went into the item, but for land it's just out there and at some point someone decided they should be able to restrict what other people do in some area. If you see that it's not legitimate for a government to do, then by…

> If you see that it's not legitimate for a government to do, then by the same logic it's not legitimate for an individual I see the rights of government as secondary by default with exceptions meted out strictly as necessary. There exists a very limited number of jurisdictions where property taxes don't exist and land ownership is therefore real, so there's no philosophical/legal impediment to foregoing property tax…

I think a good analogy is other planets - can I say I own Mars and anyone who goes there has to rent the land from me? Without a government that's not going to happen, and with a government it only happens through force which invalidates the whole "exchange"

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#339

Post by SoftTalker »

AlbertCory wrote: post #326
anigbrowl wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much was the underpayment (I know you said a dollar or two, but I presume this had gone on for a while?). It's odd to me that they repo'ed rather than contacting him to say 'hey, there's a problem with your account.' I find the story wholly believable, a lot of people who work in payments seem to be stupid and/or stubborn, and it might be the industry selects for those traits.

Unfortunately, I'm not the person who was repo'ed and I already texted him once today. "Stay away from GM Finance" is the lesson here.

That’s generally good advice. Buy cars you can afford, and pay cash. If you must, finance with a local credit union.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#340

Post by chucksmash »

chadlavi wrote: post #330
chucksmash wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having trouble thinking what user-facing technology cars have gained recently that I actually need. Backup cameras are nice, my last two cars had them but my current one does not. Life goes on. Heard anecdotally that new cars in US require then now, so I guess next car will probably have one again. Blindspot indicators on side mirrors are nice too, but physically turning and looking is too engrained in me to stop doi…

I think you probably want a 2017ish Subaru

Close. Funnily enough, the last car was a 2014 Subaru we bought in 2021. My spouse drives our kids more, so she staked out the claim on that one though.

Maybe the Bronco selling like crazy will convince carmakers to issue "remastered" versions of previous cars, and maybe the remastering won't be "stick a 17inch screen in the center console."

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