81–90 of 318 posts
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I'm not up to date on the Linux desktop ecosystem. In what sense is Wayland struggling?
It doesn't work reliably on any GPU I own, for any stable version of a linux distro I use. One GPU is too old, the other is too nvidia.
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It doesn't work reliably on any GPU I own, for any stable version of a linux distro I use. One GPU is too old, the other is too nvidia.
Wayland uses linux’s gpu abstraction (drm) to work and that’s it. If it fails to work than linux also does, so your setup has some issues.
Mind that the page describes a hypothetical update to X. In practical terms, Wayland is X12.
No it's not, it barely does any of the things X11 is useful for.
Hint: X was optimized for 1980s graphics, which was 90% simple blits, line draws, and fills mediated by the CPU perhaps with special fixed-function accelerators for those operations.
In 2023, graphics is done with the GPU -- period. You post draw commands, geometry, and textures to the GPU via shared memory and let it do the work. Programmable shaders open up vast amounts of capability that X11's graphics primitives just don't get you.
So you may be right that Wayland isn't good at what X11 is useful for. But nobody's doing what X11 is useful for today. What people are actually doing, Wayland is excellent at. You will be running a Wayland desktop soon, because toolkit maintainers and distro packagers will simply drop support for X. The Gtk maintainers are already talking about dropping support for X in Gtk+5.
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That may not be true any more. ChromeBooks were outselling Macs from 2017-2021, although the pandemic meant hundreds of millions of people suddenly needed new computers for remote working and the kids to use for remote schooling, so sales spiked and have since collapsed. But they sold ITRO 100 million units per year for several years. China's 5-3-2 program is also nearing its end: https://medium.com/technicity/chines…
Chrome OS isn't Linux desktop. Even if you mention Linux sandbox environment, it is only available in selected models.
It's a relatively standard distro up until the GUI layer, based on Gentoo.
I'd agree that Android is something else, but ChromeOS is mostly the usual GNU + Linux stuff, and a weird display server which is Chrome rendering direct to the screen.
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Chrome OS isn't Linux desktop. Even if you mention Linux sandbox environment, it is only available in selected models.
I disagree. It's a relatively standard distro up until the GUI layer, based on Gentoo. I'd agree that Android is something else, but ChromeOS is mostly the usual GNU + Linux stuff, and a weird display server which is Chrome rendering direct to the screen.
Maybe take advantage of WASM for it.
And even if Crostini is available, the usual stuff
https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439
-- Cameras aren't yet supported.
-- Android devices are supported over USB, but other devices aren't yet supported.
-- Android Emulators aren't yet supported.
-- Hardware acceleration isn't yet supported, including GPU and video decode.
-- ChromeVox is supported for the default Terminal app, but not yet for other Linux apps.
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> Wayland is still unusable Wait, what have I been doing my work on then? Someone should inform Ubuntu and Fedora, too. Who knew it hasn’t been possible to use the most popular Linux distro out of the box for two years?
YMMV. When it reaches the level of X11 that "just works for everyone without preconditions" it will become usable in my coordinate system
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Not sure it's fair to call it struggling when it's the default in just about every distro and has been smooth and stable for years.
I think it's fair, since every one of those distros ships an X11 fallback. I desperately want Wayland to succeed but exaggerating its current wins won't get us there. I don't want this post to focus on the negative, though, so I'll suggest a more positive argument: the people who would have been responsible for a hypothetical X12 instead decided to make Wayland. I can't think of a body of experts more likely to make…
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Wayland uses linux’s gpu abstraction (drm) to work and that’s it. If it fails to work than linux also does, so your setup has some issues.
I have to disable hardware compositing on X11 to get a reliable desktop (and HW rendering in individual apps like firefox). I'm not sure if something similar is possible on Wayland.
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I have to disable hardware compositing on X11 to get a reliable desktop (and HW rendering in individual apps like firefox). I'm not sure if something similar is possible on Wayland.
It doesn't sound like X11 is running reliably for you either
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Anyone who believes that XFree86 was stable in 1999 was apparently running a different XFree86 to me. The sysrq key was mostly useful at the time for using the SAK shortcut to kill all processes on the current terminal, which with luck included your wedged XFree86 which would then get respawned by xdm. I don't miss those times.
XFree86 in 1999 might not have been, but in 1994 when I went to university in the UK and was using Sun computers which were solely X servers to display programs running on the "main" shared computer in the corner of the room, X and all the associated software was all stable and worked fine.