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Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

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Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#261

Post by horsawlarway »

Uehreka wrote: post #215
horsawlarway wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the mere capability renders the machine fundamentally untrustworthy. I've said this a couple of times before, but I find it fairly astonishing that we don't have legislation covering what manufacturers are allowed to do to a product with embedded devices after a user has purchased it. I want to be very clear - after I have bought a product, ANY CHANGE WITHOUT MY CONSENT done by the embedded software at the behest o…

> I want to be very clear - after I have bought a product, ANY CHANGE WITHOUT MY CONSENT done by the embedded software at the behest of the manufacturer is essentially breaking and entering (Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA)). Man, do I have bad news for you about everything.

Sure - although I'll point out that technically the CFAA already covers this, it's just never applied in this manner (caveat - the CFAA can cover basically anything given the vague wording... so the value of it is up for debate)

Basically - I want a simple contract that ensures that the device I've bought will continue working as expected (assuming no use of remote/internet connected features) and that the manufacturer is unable to enter my property and change how it functions after sale.

I don't find that particularly unusual. I think the unusual part is rather than manufacturers have this new ability at all. For the majority of our legal history it was either prohibitively expensive or downright impossible for a manufacturer to embed a device that only obeys the manufacturer into consumer products.

Now it's both possible and cheap, and I'd like to see some regulation regarding my rights to purchase a tool.

A small number of places are paying at least a little attention and beginning to ban the most egregious cases of this (ex: NJ considering banning car subscriptions with a specific call out to the behavior of BMW around seat heaters).

But this is going to become a tidal wave of consumer abuse in the very near future - I can fucking guarantee it.

Why would anyone ever sell you a product when they can rent it to you and let their "little green man" be the property manager for free? They won't - not unless they're forced to.

And while I think renting can be a useful way to acquire a product - I sure as hell think it shouldn't be the only one.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#263

Post by frumper »

kube-system wrote: post #218
chongli wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how costly it would be if one of these self-driving cars killed a bystander while repo-ing itself.

Probably similar in cost to the people killed by human tow truck drivers.

That sounds more costly for the tow truck driver than for Ford.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#264

Post by idontpost »

motohagiography wrote: post #41

I work in security and anti-fraud is the use case of last resort for terrible ideas. When you finance a car, the vehicle becomes collateral for a loan, but it belongs to you. A technology like this means that the vehicle still belongs to Ford, which means if something goes wrong with it, or if you get sciatica from their shitty seats, you can class action sue them into oblivion. The reason we have laws is so that peo…

[dead]

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#265

Post by pdntspa »

tough wrote: post #208
daveslash wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And my tractor tole' me I don't matter, ever since John Deere told me to Steer clear, from them old repairs. Used to be, you could fix'em for free, now it's all John Deere IP. Edit: And Monsanto, don't you know, told me ya'best not go, usin' your own seeds. ( no joke folks, I think there's some real potential for a satire country song here, I'm thinkin' by a Jonathan Coulton type singer )

I had to ask ChatGPT to write one Verse 1: My truck was my pride and joy, it was my everything But now it's gone, and I'm feeling the sting Ford said I couldn't pay, so they took it away And now I'm left here, with nothing to say Chorus: My truck done left me, and my heart is broke I'm just a heartbroken man, and it ain't no joke But I'll find a way to get back on my feet And maybe someday, my truck and I will meet V…

Someone on reddit posted something extremely similar to this!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/11dnngu/future_...

Except theirs is way funnier :)

edit- err sorry, it was this one!

https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/11drf6o/future...

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#267

Post by xivzgrev »

RobotToaster wrote: post #10

Great, now we're going to get country music about how some guy's truck left him.

ChatGPT to the rescue:

Verse 1: I had a trusty truck, my pride and joy Took me everywhere, never did destroy But times were tough, I fell behind Missed some payments, the bank declined

Chorus: Now my truck's gone, it drove away Left me feeling low, I gotta say I'm stuck here on this dusty land Holding onto memories of what I had

Verse 2: That old truck had a mind of its own But it always knew the way back home Now it's gone, and I'm all alone Sitting here, trying not to moan

Chorus: Now my truck's gone, it drove away Left me feeling low, I gotta say I'm stuck here on this dusty land Holding onto memories of what I had

Bridge: I should have known better, I should have tried To keep my payments up, to keep my ride Now I'm here, looking at the road Wondering where my truck has gone to roam

Chorus: Now my truck's gone, it drove away Left me feeling low, I gotta say I'm stuck here on this dusty land Holding onto memories of what I had

Outro: Maybe someday, I'll get another ride One that won't drive away, won't make me cry But for now, I'll just sit here and sing About the truck that was my everything.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#269

Post by forgetfreeman »

lmkg wrote: post #36

Well if this is how the new cars are gonna be, I guess I'll just go ahead and teach myself to be a Car Guy so that the one I have now will run forever. It's not that I'm afraid of missing a payment. At this point I would probably buy the car outright. But after the robo-signing debacle with BoA repossesssing houses that they were never party to, the mere capability renders the machine fundamentally untrustworthy.

Recently minted Car Guy here. Start with Ford or Chevy anything pre-1975, expect to spend 5000-7000 for a running older vehicle in need of maintenance and body work. PArts are ubiquitous and you'll be blown away by how simple engines can be to understand and work on without all of the ECM/emissions-era add-ons under the hood to contend with. Learn to love calling the support line @ JEGS or Summit Racing before ordering parts to confirm your fitment before you pull the trigger. Don't even bother thinking about stepping foot in a modern parts store, they can't help you.

Re: Future Fords could repossess themselves and drive away if you miss payments

#270

Post by kube-system »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #259
kube-system wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with the end point, but I have a hard time understanding why the Hertz case demonstrates that Ford is likely to lie with criminal intent about a mistaken repo. It has literally nothing in common except that it involves a car. If Ford wants to lie about repos or lie about human error, they can do that now, they don't need a computer to do it. The whole damn process is subject to human error as it is t…

The reduction of friction has me worried here. Nowadays you have to get a tow truck out to retrieve the vehicle, and you have an incentive not to do that pointlessly. But once the car can drive itself back to the dealership the bar will be lowered pretty quickly.

It's all the same to the lender, no? They file the correct paperwork to do it, and it is handled by some outside process.
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