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> Wayland is still unusable Wait, what have I been doing my work on then? Someone should inform Ubuntu and Fedora, too. Who knew it hasn’t been possible to use the most popular Linux distro out of the box for two years?
YMMV. When it reaches the level of X11 that "just works for everyone without preconditions" it will become usable in my coordinate system
X is almost 40yo, stable, reliable, difficult to maintain. Wayland is 15yo, barely usable. Any old timers remember 1999 when X was 15? Wayland is like IPv6 of desktops
The main difference is in 1999 X did not have real alternatives, so if you wanted a graphical desktop, you had to fix the X bugs period. Here if you don’t want to deal with wayland issues you can fall back to X. It makes for slower development…
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I think you’re being unfair to IPv6
In terms of usability - definitely. But it's built on top of similar unfulfilled promise: we're running out IPv4 addresses VS X11 is unmaintainable legacy full of security bugs. 20 years later IPv4 is still dominant, Wayland is still unusable and X11 just works.
I don't think X11 ever "just worked" for me. Every computer I installed Linux on had X11 problems.
The XKCD about Xorg.conf was very relatable back then: https://xkcd.com/963/
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Not sure it's fair to call it struggling when it's the default in just about every distro and has been smooth and stable for years.
I think it's fair, since every one of those distros ships an X11 fallback. I desperately want Wayland to succeed but exaggerating its current wins won't get us there. I don't want this post to focus on the negative, though, so I'll suggest a more positive argument: the people who would have been responsible for a hypothetical X12 instead decided to make Wayland. I can't think of a body of experts more likely to make…
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YMMV. When it reaches the level of X11 that "just works for everyone without preconditions" it will become usable in my coordinate system
X11 is not usable for everybody without preconditions though.
There's a difference between "the community has learned to deal with it" and "just works".
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> But it's built on top of similar unfulfilled promise: we're running out IPv4 addresses. It’s not an unfulfilled promise. We’re out of IPv4 addresses and have been for almost a decade. NAT444444444444444444444 is not the solution.
Well, most providers worldwide still use IPv4 which means that cost of switching to IPv6 is higher than cost of maintaining workarounds for 10 years, and who knows, maybe it will be the same for another 10 years
X is almost 40yo, stable, reliable, difficult to maintain. Wayland is 15yo, barely usable. Any old timers remember 1999 when X was 15? Wayland is like IPv6 of desktops