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Lawsuits Block Thousands of Seattle Homes, $39M for Affordable Housing

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Re: Lawsuits Block Thousands of Seattle Homes, $39M for Affordable Housing

#151

Post by nostromo »

pwinnski wrote: post #103
WaxProlix wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like allowing duplexes or fourplexes in single-family neighborhoods This is such a middle of the road, easy, low-drawback compromise that I can't believe it's not happened already.

It's a perfectly reasonable proposal, unless you are living next to where a fourplex is being built, and you're worried about "those people" moving in nearby, where "those people" are either "poor" or "not white," depending on how much honest the NIMBY protestors are being. There are empty lots around the corner from me, and I hope they build as much housing on them as possible.

> "those people" are either "poor" or "not white"

This argument actually does your argument a disservice. And I agree with your argument.

I've talked with plenty of NIMBYs in my neiborhood when an apartment building was going through approval. They aren't racists. And in fact they are often people of color. Their concerns aren't with poor people either. They tend to mention things like parking, traffic, density, character. Instead of immediately calling them racists, I think it's better to take them at their word and build and argument against it from there.

Re: Lawsuits Block Thousands of Seattle Homes, $39M for Affordable Housing

#152

Post by bobthepanda »

nerdponx wrote: post #144
bobthepanda wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, https://news.theregistryps.com/in-114mm-transaction-holland-... is fairly garish, and somehow passed design review

I mean, I actually think that's pretty cool. I would pass that any day if I were on the review board, especially if that green space in front of it were part of the project plan.

Oh, that’s just a public park that was there before.

Re: Lawsuits Block Thousands of Seattle Homes, $39M for Affordable Housing

#153

Post by p0pcult »

notch898a wrote: post #113
p0pcult wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because with free education, you bend their interests toward that of the US. Whats your alternative? Force immigrant children into an undereducated class? Lets see how that works for you in 2 generations.

Shouldn't they have free housing too? Shelter is even more important than education. I'd argue it'd be best for the billions of world children if the USA housed, fed, and educated them all. Every blessed one of them. The ones with parents rich enough to buy homes in foreign countries aren't probably the most needy amongst them of our help, either.

In your goofy provocation, their housing is assumed. That's what you're caterwauling about, yea?

And yes, all people deserve shelter, education, and food.

Re: Lawsuits Block Thousands of Seattle Homes, $39M for Affordable Housing

#154

Post by notch898a »

p0pcult wrote: post #153
notch898a wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't they have free housing too? Shelter is even more important than education. I'd argue it'd be best for the billions of world children if the USA housed, fed, and educated them all. Every blessed one of them. The ones with parents rich enough to buy homes in foreign countries aren't probably the most needy amongst them of our help, either.

In your goofy provocation, their housing is assumed. That's what you're caterwauling about, yea? And yes, all people deserve shelter, education, and food.

In the thread we're under:

>You had me until ... education ...

The 'provocation' was that their housing WASN'T even available to be bought, but that they should get an education. How do you consider it 'assumed' when the whole 'provocation' was the guy agreed they shouldn't be able to buy it?

Re: Lawsuits Block Thousands of Seattle Homes, $39M for Affordable Housing

#155

Post by JeremyNT »

vel0city wrote: post #67

I'm reminded of a recent housing development that was planned in the city where I live. They wanted to build a few hundred near zero-lot-line single family homes and townhouses. It was on land that was previously zoned industrial, so it required a pretty lengthy approval process. The neighborhood next to it fought the proposed zoning changes. Too many houses near by, increasing traffic, too close to the creek, etc. P…

> The neighborhood next to it fought the proposed zoning changes. Too many houses near by, increasing traffic, too close to the creek, etc. Probably more likely they were worried about property valuations changing.

I see people assuming this a lot but I really think it's in bad faith.

There are plenty of reasons to oppose unbridled development that have nothing to do with property values. Some people like where they live and moved there because of what it was. The idea of an area becoming something totally different might understandably be problematic to them.

The traffic concerns especially resonate with me, as I currently live in a place that has few sidewalks and no effective public transit - previously "walkable" neighborhoods are no more as their density increased and they are flooded with cars.

Maybe as a society we can reasonably decide that such real concerns do not outweigh the benefits that may come if we increase density, but not everybody chooses where to live or what to advocate for based purely on financial concerns, and to dismiss those other concerns does a disservice to their points of view.

Re: Lawsuits Block Thousands of Seattle Homes, $39M for Affordable Housing

#156

Post by pwinnski »

steponlego wrote: post #147
cmh89 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lawsuits exist because democracy spoke and the NIMBYs didn't like what it had to say. The builders are operating under the laws of the community. The NIMBYs are abusing the legal system in an attempt to subvert the will of the people.

Sorry, the nature of local, county, state, and federal jurisdictions won't tolerate some inevitable voter takeover even if most people in a state seem to vote for some socialist WEF policy or another. It's one of the differences between federalization and what other countries have. You can fool the voters but they're getting sharper and they're becoming conspiracy theorists too now, for good reason.

It seems you've been posting every two minutes for too long to have noticed how wrong you are. Calm down with the nonsense labels and conspiracy foolishness, maybe take a break from posting to touch nature.

The State of California recently revoked the rights of quite a few smaller jurisdictions to set their own zoning laws because they abdicated that right by refusing to set zoning laws that allowed for new development. So...

Voters at every level pretty consistently vote for more development, seeing clearly that development beats homeless encampments, and that a rising tide lifts all boats. The obstructionist lawsuits come from sub-jurisdictional groups like the residents of one particular building in this case. Federalism doesn't apply here any more than "socialism" does.

Appeals to imaginary international conspiracies aside, this is pretty simple: in many areas we have, and will continue to have, more people who need places to live than we have places for them to live. Either we build more places, or we deal with the consequences of failure. People abusing the legal system to stick their fingers in their ears until the problem moves a few blocks or a city or a state away are running out of time, because the tricks are seen clearly.

Every selfish NIMBY is saying much the same thing: any and all development that led to the point where I could move here and buy my place is well and good and the natural order of things, and every bit of construction that happens after I close on my property is horrible and evil and will irreparably damage the character of the neighborhood. Of course, anyone who has lived in the area just a few years more could say the same thing about the freshly-minted NIMBY, all the way back to those who lived here 500 years ago.

It's obvious nonsense.

Re: Lawsuits Block Thousands of Seattle Homes, $39M for Affordable Housing

#157

Post by steponlego »

pwinnski wrote: post #156
steponlego wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, the nature of local, county, state, and federal jurisdictions won't tolerate some inevitable voter takeover even if most people in a state seem to vote for some socialist WEF policy or another. It's one of the differences between federalization and what other countries have. You can fool the voters but they're getting sharper and they're becoming conspiracy theorists too now, for good reason.

It seems you've been posting every two minutes for too long to have noticed how wrong you are. Calm down with the nonsense labels and conspiracy foolishness, maybe take a break from posting to touch nature. The State of California recently revoked the rights of quite a few smaller jurisdictions to set their own zoning laws because they abdicated that right by refusing to set zoning laws that allowed for new developme…

California is a model for what other states want to avoid doing. And if you’re admitting that you wish to use bribed politicians to enact WEF policies where’s the conspiracy theory?

People don’t want to become California and will work to prevent their states from resembling it.

Re: Lawsuits Block Thousands of Seattle Homes, $39M for Affordable Housing

#158

Post by burnished »

notch898a wrote: post #113
p0pcult wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because with free education, you bend their interests toward that of the US. Whats your alternative? Force immigrant children into an undereducated class? Lets see how that works for you in 2 generations.

Shouldn't they have free housing too? Shelter is even more important than education. I'd argue it'd be best for the billions of world children if the USA housed, fed, and educated them all. Every blessed one of them. The ones with parents rich enough to buy homes in foreign countries aren't probably the most needy amongst them of our help, either.

Why are you so opposed to children being fed, sheltered, and educated? Im not even suggesting going out and American Exceptionalisming the fuck out of them, like you are trying to make this sound.

Re: Lawsuits Block Thousands of Seattle Homes, $39M for Affordable Housing

#159

Post by burnished »

lvl102 wrote: post #68
burnished wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had me until you started complaining about educating children. Who cares where they come from? Feed 'em and learn 'em.

Public schools = public goods. That’s all goodwill built over decades in many communities. Why are we just giving that away for free to people with interests against the US? Nope.

Children do not have national interests. I insist this is a matter of basic decency and I am frankly surprised that anyone would act like this is controversial.

Re: Lawsuits Block Thousands of Seattle Homes, $39M for Affordable Housing

#160

Post by cmh89 »

steponlego wrote: post #157
pwinnski wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems you've been posting every two minutes for too long to have noticed how wrong you are. Calm down with the nonsense labels and conspiracy foolishness, maybe take a break from posting to touch nature. The State of California recently revoked the rights of quite a few smaller jurisdictions to set their own zoning laws because they abdicated that right by refusing to set zoning laws that allowed for new developme…

California is a model for what other states want to avoid doing. And if you’re admitting that you wish to use bribed politicians to enact WEF policies where’s the conspiracy theory? People don’t want to become California and will work to prevent their states from resembling it.

>California is a model for what other states want to avoid doing.

Ah yes, having the largest GDP in the country and one of the highest in the world is certainly something to avoid.

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