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Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

writing.samsonhu.com

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Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#241

Post by Llamamoe »

Wagthesam wrote: post #106
Llamamoe wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're doing good work. I've had Sleep Disordered Breathing since childhood from a mix of recessed jaws and allergies, and my journey was a decline from extreme ADHD in my 10s, to overwhelming fatigue in my early 20s, to essentially dementia. Nobody offered or was willing to test for anything. I was gaslit and sent to psychiatrists any time I tried seeing a doctor. By now, it's not my only debilitating chronic condit…

Its been shown that sleep apnea related brain damage reverses completely within a year of treatment. If your issue is a narrow airway due to a recessed jaw an MMA can be curative. Insurance covers MMA if AHI > 15. Do you have people around you that can help cover an MMA if you need to self fund? Or people you can borrow money from? Dr Alfaro in Barecelona will do it much cheaper than the US. I understand the dread. I…

My dude, Alfaro charges prices that are vastly out of reach of anyone not made of money, and I'm at a point where making Dr appointments in the first place, nevermind coordinating travel, pushes me to my limits.

I can probably get it done under public healthcare where I live, but I don't know if I can afford orthodontics, even if it's "only" a few thousand bucks over here.

Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#242

Post by DrThunder »

nunez wrote: post #160

I get insomnia. I've been doing CBT-i for a month. It's been transformational. Throughout this experience, I've learned a lot about sleep that I wouldn't have learned otherwise. 8 hours of sleep per day is generally a myth. The amount of sleep people need varies from person to person. Ironically, fixating on getting eight hours can cause some people to get insomnia. Insomnia is a condition that is often caused by som…

I would agree with almost all of this. The worst bouts of insomnia I had were caused by going without sleep for a day or two and then starting to fixate on all the issues it might cause if I did not sleep. The anxiety surrounding the problems I would have the next day with little sleep was the biggest culprit.

You stick yourself in a programmatic loop by trying so hard to make yourself sleep. As you said, sleep just happens, you don't force it.

Generations of people have gone on very little sleep for decent stretches of time. It is impossible for your body to not sleep and at some point it will happen whether you want it to or not. Fixation on making your sleep better will only do the opposite.

Do the main things that help sleep - exercise, no caffeine after noon or so (if you're on normal day schedule), get off the screens at night near bed time and wind down appropriately. Other than that you must take an attitude of 'So what if I don't sleep. I'll feel slightly bad tomorrow and that's about it'. You will not suffer all that many long term effects of a little sleep deprivation here and there.

Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#243

Post by tencentshill »

raspberry1337 wrote: post #148

Hello WagTheSam, thanks for a good write up. Can I just ask, what air cleanser did you get? I am thinking of trying this, I don't trust my apartment buildings air vents. What is the gain compared to just opening a window - if you live in a not too toxic environment?

A DIY Corai-Rosenthal box would be the most cost-effective one.

https://www.brown.edu/news/2022-12-23/corsi-cubes-study

Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#244

Post by broguinn »

Wagthesam wrote: post #3

This is quite raw and I'm actually somewhat afraid to share this. But I think sleep apnea is criminally under-discussed and underdiagnosed. It can f your life up sideways and can take years to diagnose. So sharing my story and hope I can advocate for it. If you have sleep apnea, no amount of sleep gadgets, good habits, exercise, will help you. You must fix the root cause

My father regularly sleeps 5-6 hours a night, and negatively impacts his energy and mental acuity. He also snores like a looney tune. My partners over the years have told me that I snore, especially when I'm sick. I rarely sleep more than 7 hours a night.

After reading James Nestor's _Breath_, I learned that snoring and sleep apnea are a modern disease; crooked teeth and under-expanded palettes mean our narrow nasal passages don't pass enough oxygen. When we're sleeping, this leads to snoring and sleep apnea, which prevents deep sleep.

My general dentist pointed me to a specialist, who gave me a take-home sleep study that proved I had moderate sleep apnea. I'm now 6 months into using a Vivos mRNA device (https://vivos.com/), which expands the palette to prevent sleep apnea. For anyone considering a CPAP or surgical expansion, I'd strongly encourage you to find a specialist in your area that prescribes this device.

Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#245

Post by DrThunder »

madaxe_again wrote: post #111

Sweet Jesus. The illness this young man has is an advanced case of capitalism , not sleep apnoea. While I still worked at the technology mill, my sleep was terrible, I had apnoea, I ground my teeth to stumps, and suicide was a frequent point of contemplation. I changed my life, entirely. Stopped subjecting myself to the incessant cruelties we are expected to accept as simply normal. We have an entire planet filled wi…

Imagine thinking sleep deprivation doesn't exist in alternative economic structures...

"It required stopping giving a damn about career, success, and all that crap, and going and doing entirely my own thing."

So capitalism helped you. There are quite a few ism countries where 'doing your own thing' isn't an option.

Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#246

Post by Llamamoe »

Lio wrote: post #139
Llamamoe wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're doing good work. I've had Sleep Disordered Breathing since childhood from a mix of recessed jaws and allergies, and my journey was a decline from extreme ADHD in my 10s, to overwhelming fatigue in my early 20s, to essentially dementia. Nobody offered or was willing to test for anything. I was gaslit and sent to psychiatrists any time I tried seeing a doctor. By now, it's not my only debilitating chronic condit…

It's definitely not too late for you mate, no matter how it feels in the short term. You're putting it off because deep down your subconscious still knows that you are important and have innate value. When things are dark it's easy to forget it but the world needs you, people you know need you and love you. I suspect it's a trick of the mind that hides that from us temporarily. Anything you do will help and it will g…

I'm not a person who went from high functioning to struggling. I'm a person who went from no longer able to attend high school to ten years of being trapped at home by progressively debilitating fatigue.

I've tried hundreds of things over the years, but it's like playing whack-a-mole or trying to slay the mythical hydra. For every improvement I manage, I fail two. No matter what I do, it isn't enough. I can barely take basic care of myself, treatment is unachievable.

I fooled myself into thinking it'd get better when I started PAP, regularly working out. But it just wasn't enough to function. And then extreme post-meal fatigue hit, and everything has gone to shit.

At this point, I'm not even able to try psychologically. I've given up. It's over. Each of my problems has a realistic fix, but none are achievable for me. I can't even do my own groceries or prepare food half of the days.

Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#247

Post by Llamamoe »

yesseri wrote: post #104
Llamamoe wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're doing good work. I've had Sleep Disordered Breathing since childhood from a mix of recessed jaws and allergies, and my journey was a decline from extreme ADHD in my 10s, to overwhelming fatigue in my early 20s, to essentially dementia. Nobody offered or was willing to test for anything. I was gaslit and sent to psychiatrists any time I tried seeing a doctor. By now, it's not my only debilitating chronic condit…

This makes me really sad to read. I really hope you don't do that. I can't imagine how hard this must have been for you. I sometimes feel like life is to much. What helps me is the realization that life right now is hard but I am enduring. What makes it feel to much is the feeling that this burden is going to go on forever. So I try to be satisfied with the fact that I am capable of handling life right now, and the f…

It makes me sad too, but it just is what it is. I've had individual days of the sun shining through the clouds, but in the end, the trajectory of my life is always downwards.

It doesn't matter what I tried. I don't have enough executive function to stick to it. For every win, I fail two other things. It's a thankless, Sisyphean struggle just to survive from one day to the next.

I wish I could catch a break, but my other problem is horrifying, debilitating, day-long fatigue after eating nontrivial amounts of anything at all. No specific triggers, it's either starve myself or feel so horrible I can't even read/watch/game to distract myself.

It's just too much on top of abysmal sleep.

Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#248

Post by Llamamoe »

dsego wrote: post #143
Wagthesam wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its been shown that sleep apnea related brain damage reverses completely within a year of treatment. If your issue is a narrow airway due to a recessed jaw an MMA can be curative. Insurance covers MMA if AHI > 15. Do you have people around you that can help cover an MMA if you need to self fund? Or people you can borrow money from? Dr Alfaro in Barecelona will do it much cheaper than the US. I understand the dread. I…

Would an MSE yield sufficient results as well? Seems less invasive than full orthognathic surgery. https://www.youtube.com/@JawHacks

Depends on what exactly is going on with a given person's airways. Expansion is the best treatment for poor nasal breathing, but if you're got a narrow pharynx going on also, you probably need that MMA.

Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#249

Post by transfire »

Sadly CPAPs are money train for the medical industry. Something that probably costs about $60 to make in China will cost you ten times that up front plus $60 a month (with insurance!)

Their are other permanent solutions that would work for many people, but but those have been made largely unobtainable.

Re: Poor sleep drove me insane, and my long path to recovery

#250

Post by 71a54xd »

This happened to me after making a rash decision about a new apt in NYC. When I visited to view the apt it must've been at a time when street noise / people noise was at all time lows.

About a month into living there my work productivity tanked, I started noticing patterns of depression coming back and I legitimately started to hate my life. My sleep wasn't atrocious, but I'd be jarred awake in the morning by vehicles, had to wear earplugs at night etc. This drove me to a point of literally leaving New York entirely and I don't think I'll ever go back due to my current apt (in a different state) being completely quiet, having a dedicated dark silent room to sleep in and another room for working (as I'm full remote now).

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