Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

701–710 of 1001 posts

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#701

Post by landemva »

wkat4242 wrote: post #670
dangwhy wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

then why even propose any theory ? why not let it remain a mystery.

That's what China wants yes. But while this helps the CCP party save face, it doesn't help to move on with the investigation. It's not even about the blame. We investigate air crashes in such detail so we can prevent them from happening again. Of course with an even bigger event like this we should do the same. The pandemic has happened and no kind of blame or money can revert it. But we can try to learn everything a…

Pilots are licensed and airframes are certified. Licenses can be revoked. Where are the personal civil and criminal penalties for the GoF staff?

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#702

Post by locustous »

Zetice wrote: post #159
locustous wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And all those with different opinions were cancelled... Doctors quickly learned to tow the line or you lost your job and license while the masses cheered. Hard to find "valid dissent" when you punish and disqualify everyone who tries.

And yet, these people seemed to have conducted their research without trouble. Weird, how approaching a problem scientifically and not bombastically elicits a more measured response...

I don't understand "these people", your response is somewhat ambiguous. If you are referring to skeptics... Then I find your conclusion inaccurate. The response is not "measured". Shunned and ridiculed is what I have mostly observed.

Society generally had adopted intolerance and seeks to punish detractors. Both sides are doing this. Again, this is not... measured...

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#703

Post by bradleyjg »

hotpotamus wrote: post #695
bradleyjg wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where’s your comment from two years ago belittling the wet market theory as shitty? This whole saga is a damning indictment of: science journalism, government agencies’ public engagement, scientists’ public engagement, and the critical reasoning skills of middlebrow audiences.

What was the origin of Bubonic Plague, of AIDS, of Polio? Do we know in sufficient detail? I remember many saying that the exact origin of SARS-CoV-2 may never be known. Say it did escape from a Chinese lab - is that all you need to know? Or would you want to know how it came to be in the lab in the first place?

I remember articles and quotes firmly rejecting the lab leak hypothesis and darkly implying that those championing the theory had a hidden agenda.

The considerations were:

— there were random attacks on Asians

- public health officials and scientists were worried about an anti science backlash

- virologists were really worried about a backlash against virology

— relations with China had not yet deteriorated to their current levels and government leaders didn’t want to antagonize them

So there was a semi-coordinated effort by government officials and the scientific establishment to put the lab leak theory beyond the pale. The middlebrow media either wittingly or unwittingly went along for the ride. Their readership ate it up.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#704

Post by jcranmer »

hotpotamus wrote: post #695
bradleyjg wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where’s your comment from two years ago belittling the wet market theory as shitty? This whole saga is a damning indictment of: science journalism, government agencies’ public engagement, scientists’ public engagement, and the critical reasoning skills of middlebrow audiences.

What was the origin of Bubonic Plague, of AIDS, of Polio? Do we know in sufficient detail? I remember many saying that the exact origin of SARS-CoV-2 may never be known. Say it did escape from a Chinese lab - is that all you need to know? Or would you want to know how it came to be in the lab in the first place?

AIDS is caused by HIV, which is believed to have evolved from a virus infecting primates in Africa (probably more specific details than that exist, but I don't know them offhand).

Bubonic plague and polio both predate the existence of writing, and may well predate even agriculture.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#705

Post by kranke155 »

lamontcg wrote: post #246
kranke155 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the request to use gain of function research to add furin sites to coronaviruses? That seems to me the smoking gun, since this lab asked for funding to do exactly that. It’s a bit like Jaime Meitzl (sp?) said - for the first time in history you find a unicorn (furin binding site in a coronavirus) next to a lab that asked for funding to make regular horses into unicorns. But the lab says it’s “natural origi…

The PRRAR FCS not a known FCS prior to the pandemic so it is unlikely the lab would have genetically engineered it and they would have used something like RRXRR instead. Other coronaviruses have an FCS and they have evolved multiple different times, independently: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187350612... The fact that we knew that adding an FCS to a virus would likely enhance its ability to pro…

Why would it have happened only in the market? Seems to me that it’s plausible they just managed to cover up other points of origin for the pandemic in Wuhan and that the market was the first super spreading event.

If your only defense is that this is not the most commonly used way to add a FCS to coronaviruses, that seems pretty thin.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#706

Post by Zetice »

locustous wrote: post #702
Zetice wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, these people seemed to have conducted their research without trouble. Weird, how approaching a problem scientifically and not bombastically elicits a more measured response...

I don't understand "these people", your response is somewhat ambiguous. If you are referring to skeptics... Then I find your conclusion inaccurate. The response is not "measured". Shunned and ridiculed is what I have mostly observed. Society generally had adopted intolerance and seeks to punish detractors. Both sides are doing this. Again, this is not... measured...

These people who conducted the research in the article, the employees of the DoE, were not shunned or ridiculed.

The only people getting shunned and ridiculed are the people who approached the issue unscientifically.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#707

Post by BLKNSLVR »

dmix wrote: post #577
tim333 wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other Chinese government behaviours also. If it wasn't a lab leak why not publish the Wuhan labs database which was public until the outbreak? I know they say hacking but they could just make a copy and upload it somewhere. Also after Xi's first speech on covid his civil servants put out instructions to improve biosecurity at the virus labs. And lots of little things that seem a bit odd.

The only counterpoints are a) China is highly insular and rarely plays ball on even basic stuff and b) the whole Chinese idea of "saving face" where even when a person in power obviously messes up you still don't take the Western "brutally honest" approach, you do the opposite and pretend everything is still normal out of 'respect' (and in protection) of the person's social standing. The consequences happen quietly b…

> the Western "brutally honest" approach

Yeah, not so much these days, and probably not ever to extent that you may have meant it. Western folks are learning pretty quickly how well total reality denial has been working for... other regimes.

I am going to say Trump, but if I'm going to do that then I also need to mention an absolute procession of Western political and business leaders. Biden, Obama, Bush, Bush, Clinton, Abbot, Turnbull (he denied mathematics for god's sake), Morrison, Blair, Jobs, Ellison, Gates, Hoover, and so many other names I cbf remembering or looking up.

In fact, I think the "brutally honest" approach is exceedingly rare and always has been, in any arena in any hemisphere.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#708

Post by adltereturn »

wkat4242 wrote: post #672
landemva wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> least shitty theory I read about CIA false flags in Cuba. Nordstream didn't blow itself up because the pipe was angry it allowed .de and .ru to engage in commerce. I guess a rogue western intelligence group bribed or compelled a Chinese lab worker to sabotage something. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/rfk-ope... "The CIA had been plotting to assassinate Castro since the summer of 1960, even bef…

I really doubt this. The pandemic was bad for the whole world, not just China. I'm sure it was an accident.

I agree with this statement, COVID is very likely to be an accident, unless it was created by a mad scientist or aliens, I can't think of any reason to artificially create COVID to harm the interests of China or other countries other than China.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#709

Post by goatlover »

notfed wrote: post #664
than3 wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you are misunderstanding the nuance of what they are saying. Its best understood after watching and grokking this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNv2PlqmsAc Putting what is being said in the correct context, outlined in that video, which is how government typically operates. Its pretty clear what they mean to any educated rational reader what was meant. The characterization you made is poor and…

The point is that the headline is clickbait. As you have said, you have to read the article to determine the radically different meaning of the headline. That's how clickbait works.

How is it clickbait? A US intelligence agency did say that the lab leak theory was more likely than the wet market one, even if their confidence is low to moderate.

Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says

#710

Post by than3 »

notfed wrote: post #664
than3 wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you are misunderstanding the nuance of what they are saying. Its best understood after watching and grokking this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNv2PlqmsAc Putting what is being said in the correct context, outlined in that video, which is how government typically operates. Its pretty clear what they mean to any educated rational reader what was meant. The characterization you made is poor and…

The point is that the headline is clickbait. As you have said, you have to read the article to determine the radically different meaning of the headline. That's how clickbait works.

That's a very circular argument and definition.

By that definition, any headline of any article will be clickbait to someone just by them saying so regardless of any truth in the matter. People lie every day.

If you are looking at 'reading' articles, its kind of expected that you will read them if you choose to do so. Complaining about it doesn't change any meaningful thing.

I really don't understand the point you were trying to communicate.

Is it that you want someone to just tell you everything to believe, without needing to critically think at all?

People lie, so it sounds like you want something that will never come to pass, and trying to make it come to pass would only create a negative outcome for you, those close to you, and anyone else that happened to be within your sphere of influence, at least given a sufficient amount of time.

For the past couple thousand years of history exploitation has been the norm in various forms.

Did I completely misread what you meant (but didn't say?). Could you clarify?

Post reply on HN