So if it wasn’t a lab leak, then where did it come from?
Are there any theories that explain that it could NOT be a lab leak and something else entirely?
Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
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Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
#532Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is probably the most egregious example of "whataboutism" I've seen on HN.
I think you're missing the point. To me the post was answering to someone claiming that - Americans suffered the consequences of COVID because of China, which is arguably not true, they have handled the pandemic badly because of their own faults, incompetence and hubris (and a President in denial). - The Americans are at the first stage of grieving over this, because they are obviously victims, while truth is they ar…
> If you were part of the 96% of the World population which is not American, you would know the feeling.
I'm not American, nor do I live in America.
And while I have some sympathy for pointing out "the world is not the US", the majority of the comment was bald whataboutism:
> "At least a leak is not intentional like killing hundreds of thousand of innocent people by bombing their homes. Leak doesn't mean engineering a disease to kill some specific target, anyway, if China did it to kill Americans, it wouldn't be as bad as the Opium wars and the American invasion of China in 1900. he first U.S. multimillionaire, John Jacob Astor, made part of his fortune smuggling opium into China."
Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
#533Earlier quoted context omitted.
The headline is absolutely, literally true. I also don't understand the nuance that anyone could miss here. The astounding thing is that the Energy Dept. can say that a lab leak is the most likely cause of the pandemic, and people jump out in front of them to say that what they somehow still mean is that a lab leak wasn't the cause of the pandemic. They have "low confidence" that it was a lab leak ( there might not e…
How can "low confidence" and "higher confidence than all other theories combined" jive? Does it require "all other theories" to not include "we don't have a clue" which is the most likely of all or am I missing something else?
Imagine if it's a curve like this:
- No idea for either solution and we'll never know - 70% chance
- Lab leak - 20% chance
- Occurred in nature - 10% chance
In that case, you could say that the most likely answer is "lab leak" if you must have an answer, but it's very "low confidence." I don't know what the actual odds are, it's just made up for demonstration.
Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
#534It is funny to watch the media finally get on board as relations with china has nosed dived since the last time this came up.
Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
#535A lot of people will be "awww, shucks, it's too late now, what does it matter? What would we do different?"
Well, for one, we should remember to completely crucify the oh-so-helpful people who wanted to censor anything as misinformation or disinformation. They were wrong. They'll need to be reminded that they suppressed the truth, and they'll need reminding constantly, for at least a decade. "Hey, remember that time when everyone banded together to suppress the truth?"
More reminders would be in order: everyone who immediately started gibbering about racist xenophobes is gonna have to walk that back.
Anyone who wanted to have word games about what "gain of function" really means needs a long and grinding reminder.
We should assess our remaining faith in the WHO in light of their repeated mistakes, spoken with that total confidence. You know what I am talking about. "Mere mortal, you are not an epidemiologist, we told you that this wasn't airborne."
The people who over-confidently tried to control the narrative, beat others down, shut them up, and so forth? Jostling them with the truth of their mistakes, again and again, might help for it not to happen next time.
Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
#536So if it wasn’t a lab leak, then where did it come from? Are there any theories that explain that it could NOT be a lab leak and something else entirely?
[dead]
Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
#537Earlier quoted context omitted.
And this is (one reason) why so many are keen to believe Lab Leak - because then it was done by 'bad humans' and so can be fixed, instead of being (another) consequence of our encroachment on the natural world and indeed something that often just happens. Much easier to believe the 'baddies' have been found and 'brought to justice' than having to face up to the world we live in and our effect on it.
What? Why would anyone be punished for an unintentional lab leak? Scientists are also humans that can make mistakes.
But was it negligence? This is the difference between "a mistake" and "manslaughter".
Without knowing, and a proper investigation, we can't decide. If it was negligence, punishment is used for a variety of reasons. Often, it is the only way to get people to push back against employers.
And fines, are often the only way to get companies to care.
Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
#538IMO, it seems obvious from the behavior of China's government that they know it is a lab leak. If it wasn't a lab leak, then presumably there is an animal reservoir of the virus somewhere in China, but as far as I know they haven't claimed to have found it. But if there is an animal reservoir of the virus in China, then how could the Chinese government ever expect a lockdown to work? A lockdown on travel would only r…
There are other Chinese government behaviours also. If it wasn't a lab leak why not publish the Wuhan labs database which was public until the outbreak? I know they say hacking but they could just make a copy and upload it somewhere. Also after Xi's first speech on covid his civil servants put out instructions to improve biosecurity at the virus labs. And lots of little things that seem a bit odd.
Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
#539On the upside, we advanced mRNA vaccine technology faster than it ever could have been done under the normal overly cautious test protocols.
This technology is going to save countless lives and healtcare dollars in the future, so it was for the best, even if it was an accident.
Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
#540Earlier quoted context omitted.
I love this reaction, because Trump, of all people, was getting some of the least useful briefings of any modern US president, due to his inability to pay attention.[0][1][2] So it's entirely possible that just watching the news casually would leave you better informed than the US president during the years of 2017 to 2021. [0] https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/29/politics/trump-intelligence-b... [1] https://www.theguardia…
I'm always fascinated by the dichotomy of the evil hitler hyper-competent sub 100IQ billionaire who became president illustrated in every one of these types of comments. You could literally just read his executive orders to figure out what you said is false.
Having read a number of Trump administration Executive Orders and not understanding what you mean, could you elaborate?