Earlier quoted context omitted.
You think it’s weird that one of the top virologists in the world was responsible for finding virus research and for planning virus outbreak response?
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It would be weird, but that's not what happened at all!
Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
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Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
#162Lab leak of what even? There is nothing magical about virological labs. They don't create new virus out of nothing. Most of the time there is a "lab leak" the virus already had all the potential it had before. In all the cases I can remember, the only reason the "lab leak" was even a significant event (as opposed to a bucket spilling into the ocean) is when the lab was geographically distinct from the endemic occurre…
What do you exactly mean that Gain of Function is "easier said than done"? We routinely engineer changes in viruses for all sorts of purposes. Even I can do it [baculovirus expression cassette vectors--takes less than a day from engineering the cassette to getting expression products]. The tools to do this can be ordered from a catalogue, and it's never been easier to manipulate genomes. You design and order the primers you need and get them a couple of days later.
Just take a look through the first few links here: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=lentivirus+expression
That's just one type of technology that can be used with ease. There are many others. Baculovirus and adenovirus systems are in common use. Making a custom system for a different virus isn't hard, it just takes a bit more time and effort. I was taught multiple techniques to do this in the late '90s and they weren't new even then. Genetic modification started in viruses--the M13 bacteriophage. It's only got easier and more sophisticated since then. The Wuhan researchers already have multiple papers published which involved making modified viruses, and were specifically funded to perform Gain of Function research. You seem to be claiming this is out of the question, but this seems counter to what is possible, their existing track record, and the grants they were working under at the time.
Why are you underplaying what went on here, and maybe wilfully misdirecting? A lot of this stuff is already well documented, since it's been going on for many years. You can find their papers with a few searches, and they have already been reported on multiple times over the last couple of years.
Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
#163perhaps this is to pressure China into allowing the WHO investigation, which they have blocked [1], to proceed.
Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
#164There's a lot of bad headline-writing on this subject today. Here's the NYT's headline: Lab Leak Most Likely Caused Pandemic, Energy Dept. Says And then the sub-head (or dek, if you want to sound like you're in the know): The conclusion, which was made with “low confidence,” came as America’s intelligence agencies remained divided over the origins of the coronavirus. So we have a conclusion: 'lab leak most likely cau…
Also article mentions FBI has “moderate” confidence it was lab leak. I find that very interesting given it wouldn’t be so much based on scientific analysis but some intelligence collection the FBI has.
Doesn’t the FBI also have a large biological analysis team? For bio terror ?
Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
#165There's a lot of bad headline-writing on this subject today. Here's the NYT's headline: Lab Leak Most Likely Caused Pandemic, Energy Dept. Says And then the sub-head (or dek, if you want to sound like you're in the know): The conclusion, which was made with “low confidence,” came as America’s intelligence agencies remained divided over the origins of the coronavirus. So we have a conclusion: 'lab leak most likely cau…
What is the substantive difference between "Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says" and "Lab Leak Most Likely Caused Pandemic, Energy Dept. Says"? The only difference I see is that one notes the pandemic ("Covid-19") while the other notes the agency ("Energy Dept.").
Or is your comment more broadly that both headlines are bad? If so, then I'd disagree. Both headlines give the most important part of the story: a US agency currently believes that the pandemic was caused by a lab leak.
Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
#166[flagged]
I would hate to live in a world where, when people randomly guess something correctly, they feel vindicated and emboldened to say other random guesses that are as completely unfounded as the one they happened to get correct.
Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
#167Even for the people that have always thought so, this must be uncomfortable. This is only the 1st engineered virus which brought the world upside down. We may be living in a biological war already, or at least some potential for weaponization.
No one is claiming this was an "engineered virus" (and the evidence for is really thin, FWIW). The finding in the linked article is only that a lab leak is the most probably origin of the pandemic.
That's the problem with this discourse. Everyone has gone full absolutist and views even relatively sane, nuanced positions as evidence for nonsense like "we may be living in a biological war already". The fact that those of us in the "it's probably a natural virus" camp may have been wrong about WIV involvement doesn't validate your favorite conspiracy theory!
Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
#168There's a lot of bad headline-writing on this subject today. Here's the NYT's headline: Lab Leak Most Likely Caused Pandemic, Energy Dept. Says And then the sub-head (or dek, if you want to sound like you're in the know): The conclusion, which was made with “low confidence,” came as America’s intelligence agencies remained divided over the origins of the coronavirus. So we have a conclusion: 'lab leak most likely cau…
Also article mentions FBI has “moderate” confidence it was lab leak. I find that very interesting given it wouldn’t be so much based on scientific analysis but some intelligence collection the FBI has.
And the WSJ piece says the CIA is undecided! I wonder what explains the different assessments.
Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
#169This was considered "fake news" and heavily reprimanded all throughout the pandemic in the media attached to the Western consensus, hilarious how they're starting to do a 180 on it (next is doing a 360, I guess).
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Re: Lab leak most likely origin of Covid-19 pandemic, U.S. agency now says
#170The This Week In Virology podcast has been talking about the lab leak concept since the early days of the pandemic, with various experts opining on the likelihood. In [1], the expert discusses how the virus itself does not seem engineered; it’s most likely a naturally created virus. However, this is exactly the sort of virus that they study at the BSL4 lab in Wuhan, quite legitimately - and they produce good science…
> However, this is exactly the sort of virus that they study at the BSL4 lab in Wuhan, quite legitimately
Bat coronavirus work including chimera creation was done at WIV at BSL-2, not BSL-4.