Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

One Year into the War in Ukraine

acoup.blog

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 190 posts

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#171

Post by mopsi »

leereeves wrote: post #168
mopsi wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same kind of resistance as described happening in Kherson in the linked article happened in LNR and DNR too. Eventually Russian forces abandoned Kherson not because of local resistance, but because of military factors. Kherson garrison was too close to the frontline and couldn't be protected from HIMARS strikes. If you are trying to use the fact that Russian forces were not driven out of LNR and DNR by local civi…

> The same kind of resistance as described happening in Kherson in the linked article happened in LNR and DNR too. Do you have sources for that? It's the first I've heard of it and I'd like to learn more. > The key part is Mexican army invading Arizona and Texas under the pretext of separatism Ok. Then to use an analogy that actually happened, perhaps the US invading Cuba under the "pretext" of separatism from Spain?…

Some examples notable enough to have Wikipedia articles:

* Arsen Pavlov, bomb in elevator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsen_Pavlov

* Alexander Zakharchenko, bomb in cafe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Zakharchenko

* Mikhail Tolstykh, rocket lauched at his office https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Tolstykh

* Aleksey Mozgovoy, car bomb and ambush with machine guns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksey_Mozgovoy

Resistance mostly takes the form of hit-and-run attacks and sabotage against infrastructure. Here's a 2019 video of DNR communications facility being blown up: https://medium.com/dfrlab/blast-highlights-mgb-detentions-in...

The video was posted on social media with the following message:

> This was done with the goal to draw attention to the inhumane torture in the basements of the MGB. Cruel treatment and tying wires with electric current to peoples’ extremities in the “people’s” republics has become the norm. The people of the Donbas must protest against torture, or the fascist republic will remain unconnected.

The very effective use of long-range weapons against targets deep inside occupied territories has also been attributed to intelligence provided by locals.

Like with Kherson, we can expect detailed stories after LNR and DNR are liberated and it's safe to reveal what went on and how it was accomplished.

> Anyway, what's the point of this analogy?

The war in Ukraine has nothing to do with separatism. Whatever seeds of that may have existed in the first days, they were hijacked by Russian intelligence services and armed forces very early to prepare the stage for military invasion and occupation. The treatment of representatives of occupied territories as independent leaders even as late as of February 2022 (when they supposedly called Russia for help) is unsupported by facts. You can stage such "separatism" anywhere in favorable conditions when police and armed forces are overwhelmed and won't react fast enough.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#172

Post by miguelazo »

wonderwonder wrote: post #111
miguelazo wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US (and their Neonazi Azov Allies) is absolutely making Ukraine fight. They have undermined diplomatic solutions at multiple points that were satisfactory even to Zelensky. Ukrainians are being used to advance US hegemonic and LNG interests, and it’s disgusting.

Interesting, can you show me the video of Zelensky saying the terms are acceptable but the US won't let him accept and are forcing everyone to fight to the death? Or are you just making this up? Also your focus on the political orientation of a battalion that pretty much fought to the death to stop the Russian invasion is pretty telling. Should Ukraine have told them not to fight? Sorry we would rather lose the war,…

That “battalion” is literally the #2 reason Russia invaded. And if you want to read about the peace deals that were undermined look them up. You can start with the most prominent one where the US sent its British errand boy Boris Johnson to handle it.

PS: I really love the minimization of NAZIS as just a “political orientation”.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#173

Post by jemmyw »

leereeves wrote: post #154
RivieraKid wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't they see how immoral it is to take over countries against their will? Are they just bad, immoral people?

That's not entirely a fair summary of the situation. The Ukrainian separatists asked for Russian help: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-allies-step-up-sanct... Some people have questioned the legitimacy of that request and of the breakaway governments, but a Washington Post poll in 2021 found that over half of the respondents from those breakaway republics wanted to join Russia and only 12% wanted to rejoin Uk…

I don't really understand how such a poll can be considered legitimate or humane. From the news articles I've read since the 2014 separatist movement happened, the majority of people in that region left. So how can you have a poll where you say everyone agrees with you when you've driven out all the people who disagree?

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#174

Post by jemmyw »

moremetadata wrote: post #148
GaggiX wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not many predicted that Ukraine would hold out so long, especially the Kremlin itself which believed that the most reasonable course of action at the time was to start the invasion even with such a small number of men.

Well I remember Liz Truss saying British civilians would not be prosecuted if they went over there and fought. This is standard textbook SAS/SBS protocol, resign your commission for deniable ops, go off to conflict zone and fight. They also dont like tattoos for this reason, so if you are military and want to earn more money, dont get a tattoo, you might just as well get useful idiot tattooed on your forehead! The fa…

uh yeah, it's going to work out well for the Russian economy.

> The businesses already sizing up their contracts when rebuilding Ukraine, the poorest country in the EU, starts in earnest, is going to be lucrative to say the least.

Yes I'm sure that's true. The war has happened, the rebuild is going to happen.

> You know that Putin is in on it by the seemingly random buildings being destroyed

No. lol

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#175

Post by jemmyw »

melling wrote: post #5
moremetadata wrote: post #2

I remember the BBC News telling viewers it would all be over in 6 weeks!

Didn’t most people expect Russian to easily take Ukraine? They are several times bigger, larger military, etc.

Yes they absolutely did. There were quite a few surprises. The resistance of the Ukrainian people, especially the leadership. The effectiveness of small shoulder mounted weapons in taking out armoured vehicles. The incredibly poor logistical capability of the Russian forces who thought they could just drive into Kiev without infantry support, or even bringing enough fuel.

The way the Russian forces conducted themselves initially has led to the belief that they believed they'd have local support. Purge of their security people supports this idea too. Putin thought he'd paid for insurgency in Ukraine and instead had some uncommonly wealthy spies.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#176

Post by int_19h »

yucky wrote: post #165
int_19h wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to say what the "entire justification" even is in this case, since the goalposts have been moved so rapidly since the beginning of the invasion that it's basically all blurry. Remember back when they said it's totally not about taking any land from Ukraine? But, anyway, Donbas is the primary justification for the population of Russia. The other one - that this is all a pre-emptive strike to forestall some k…

> It's hard to say what the "entire justification" even is in this case, since the goalposts have been moved so rapidly since the beginning of the invasion that it's basically all blurry. Is this referring to Russia in Ukraine, or the US in Iraq?

To both, so please spare us https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#177

Post by yucky »

int_19h wrote: post #176
yucky wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's hard to say what the "entire justification" even is in this case, since the goalposts have been moved so rapidly since the beginning of the invasion that it's basically all blurry. Is this referring to Russia in Ukraine, or the US in Iraq?

To both, so please spare us https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

The problem is, the US has invaded more countries in the last 50 years than the rest of the world combined and it's always based on lies and/or ulterior motives. So we have zero credibility on this.

At this point, if you don't instinctively assume our CIA/State Dept are actively working to undermine other nations then you haven't been paying attention. Why should we ever trust anything they say or do? Because Putin is a dick? Sorry, that's not quite enough to undo decades of lies I've had to listen to these turds shovel down our throats.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#178

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

leereeves wrote: post #157
RivieraKid wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's an accurate summary. The separatists are under Russian control. The Russian army has been fighting alongside them since 2014, when they invaded Donbas. In the 1991 referendum, voters in Dontesk and Luhansk overwhelmingly voted against being part of Russia. Per your source, in the Ukrainian-controlled part of Donbas, 75% want to be part of Ukraine. In the Russian-controlled part of Donbas, 57% want to be…

> The separatists are under Russian control. I think this dehumanizes them. They chose to become part of Russia and the fact that they have mostly become part of Russia doesn't erase that choice. > In the 1991 referendum... A lot has happened since 1991. Don't you agree that a poll from 2021 is more relevant now? > First point, why such stark difference? An obvious explanation would be that only the areas where enoug…

> A lot has happened since 1991. Don't you agree that a poll from 2021 is more relevant now?

What 2021 poll is that? I am aware of the ones in 2014 and the one in 2022, both of which could be described as meaningless Russian shams, and totally irrelevant .

2014 sham: https://www.thebulwark.com/what-really-happened-in-ukraine-i...

2022 sham: https://www.voanews.com/a/voting-ending-in-sham-annexation-p...

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#179

Post by wonderwonder »

miguelazo wrote: post #172
wonderwonder wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, can you show me the video of Zelensky saying the terms are acceptable but the US won't let him accept and are forcing everyone to fight to the death? Or are you just making this up? Also your focus on the political orientation of a battalion that pretty much fought to the death to stop the Russian invasion is pretty telling. Should Ukraine have told them not to fight? Sorry we would rather lose the war,…

That “battalion” is literally the #2 reason Russia invaded. And if you want to read about the peace deals that were undermined look them up . You can start with the most prominent one where the US sent its British errand boy Boris Johnson to handle it. PS: I really love the minimization of NAZIS as just a “political orientation”.

lol, Dmitry Utkin is one of the military founders of the Wagner group and is covered in nazi tattoos. Russians invaded Ukraine to stop the nazis and brought along their own? There are many examples of Nazis fighting for Russia. Come on man, I refuse to believe that you think Russia invaded Ukraine because of Nazis. No way you would fall to that sort of propaganda. Right...?

Again, can you show me the videos of Zelensky saying he wants peace and is willing to accept surrendering Ukrainian soil to get it but the US stopped him and are forcing him to fight. This is your claim, so you should be able to provide the videos. Telling me to "look them up" is not a strong argument in your favor.

Re: One Year into the War in Ukraine

#180

Post by int_19h »

yucky wrote: post #177
int_19h wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To both, so please spare us https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

The problem is, the US has invaded more countries in the last 50 years than the rest of the world combined and it's always based on lies and/or ulterior motives. So we have zero credibility on this. At this point, if you don't instinctively assume our CIA/State Dept are actively working to undermine other nations then you haven't been paying attention. Why should we ever trust anything they say or do? Because Putin i…

As it happens, I am still a Russian citizen, so you might consider that your perspective about "why do we ever trust those guys when they always lied to us" is equally applicable from the other end. I don't need to listen to Biden to tell me that Putin is a dick; I lived under him for a decade, and still have family and friends who do.

As far as comparisons go, US did a lot of shitty things internationally in the past 50 years, but I don't recall a war to directly annex parts of another country being one of them. And yes, it is far worse than "regime changes" (which are also bad, to be clear) just because of how inherently destructive such a thing is.

Post reply on HN