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Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

independent.co.uk

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Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#281

Post by spiralx »

somehnguy wrote: post #238
bedast wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brand new drugs tend to take a while to get on insurance formularies. I believe Mounjaro is still missing in most formularies. Lilly wants people on their drug, not the competition.

So just yet another case of the American healthcare/insurance system being absolutely bottom tier in usability, profits for middlemen over all else.

No, drug approval takes time everywhere with a health care system. Heck I've been on methylphenidate for my ADHD for almost 15 years now, and it's still off-label when prescribed to an adult in the UK according to the NICE.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#282

Post by kilgnad »

HyperSane wrote: post #272
kilgnad wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I really don't understand why you think this statement proves. A heroin overdose IS caused directly by an excess amount of heroin in a given time interval, just like obesity IS caused directly by excessive calories in a given time interval. The time interval for obesity is years instead of hours. This is the part you're not getting. You DIRECTLY say you don't understand here, and I am here to confirm that you in act…

"I'll just be blunt. You sound like a fucking idiot for regurgitating something SO OBVIOUS" First, don't be so rude. You think what I'm stating is obvious but there is an entire industry built to deny it. Even on this thread there are people who deny it.

Don't be rude? You compared me to a 9/11 truther. We're done here. I'm rude in response to your rudeness. I'm wrong though, I shouldn't be rude in response to you.. The proper thing to do is to end the conversation. Good day.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#283

Post by runnerup »

bedast wrote: post #105
walnutclosefarm wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mounjaro is not an obesity drug. It's a type 2 diabetes drug. Do not call it an obesity drug This is an absurd argument. It's a drug. It has specific metabolic affects in humans that are valuable to people's health, among which are the control of blood glucose levels, and control of appetite and nutrient uptake, leading to loss of excess weight. That it is currently labeled only for Type 2 diabetes is a marketing d…

> That it is currently labeled only for Type 2 diabetes is a marketing decision by the manufacturer, not a characteristic of the drug. Regulatory approval. It is a diabetes drug because it has been evaluated as such, including understanding the primary effects and side effects at various dosing levels. Mounjaro is prescribed to diabetics from 2.5mg to 15mg in increments of 2.5mg and titrated based on needs and goals.…

Mounjaro will have FDA approval for obesity this year. GP’s dogmatic stance that “Mounjaro is not an obesity drug!!” is soundly rejected by the available evidence.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#284

Post by runnerup »

bedast wrote: post #105
walnutclosefarm wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mounjaro is not an obesity drug. It's a type 2 diabetes drug. Do not call it an obesity drug This is an absurd argument. It's a drug. It has specific metabolic affects in humans that are valuable to people's health, among which are the control of blood glucose levels, and control of appetite and nutrient uptake, leading to loss of excess weight. That it is currently labeled only for Type 2 diabetes is a marketing d…

> That it is currently labeled only for Type 2 diabetes is a marketing decision by the manufacturer, not a characteristic of the drug. Regulatory approval. It is a diabetes drug because it has been evaluated as such, including understanding the primary effects and side effects at various dosing levels. Mounjaro is prescribed to diabetics from 2.5mg to 15mg in increments of 2.5mg and titrated based on needs and goals.…

Tirzepatide will have FDA approval for obesity this year. GP’s dogmatic stance that “Mounjaro is not an obesity drug!!” is overwhelmingly rejected by the available evidence.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#285

Post by eyelidlessness »

nradov wrote: post #205
eyelidlessness wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From high school through nearly all of my adult life I’ve been obese. For the last several years my weight has barely fluctuated, but it’s fluctuated between caution about being underweight and a few pounds “overweight” that barely even count. I’ve eaten almost exactly the same the whole time. The two factors which changed: - I take ADHD meds, amphetamines, which are appetite suppressants. They haven’t made me eat le…

Odds are you are consuming more than 2000 kcal/day. Most people underestimate. Have you tried weighing and recording everything you consume for a couple weeks? Anyone who wants to lose weight should start with a resting metabolic rate test in order to establish a baseline. You just sit in a chair for a few minutes while a machine measures your inhaled and exhaled gasses to calculate energy expenditure. If you consume…

This is a confusing response. I do not want to lose weight. I had to pay more attention so I could stop losing weight. Your advice might be good for someone with a different problem, but (1) I don’t have that problem and (2) I addressed the problem I did have by eating more.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#286

Post by jeroenhd »

azan_ wrote: post #280
jeroenhd wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution to obesity is a lifestyle change, or dealing with the underlying (psychological) problems. I'm all for aiding people in their lifestyle changes, through medicine or other means, but there is no drug that can fix obesity. Medicating obesity is like taking pills to make smoking healthy. This is just the next step in the ultimate dream, losing weight without putting in effort necessary. If you need to keep…

Oh yes, weight loss has to have this moral purity where it is achieved through pure willpower, otherwise it does not count.

This isn't about morality. Quitting any addiction is objectively difficult and most people need several attempts before it sticks. I have no illusion that you can "just" lose weight.

Making people chemically dependent on a drug to keep themselves healthy is optimising for the wrong solution. It's quick and easy but it mostly serves to keep insurance and drug company profits up.

I certainly believe that these drugs can be useful as a means of gaining an intermediate result (which can significantly reduce the immediate risk of many diseases) during treatment, but that's not how people treat them; people treat them as a magical fix for obesity and that's simply not healthy.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#287

Post by jeroenhd »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #275
jeroenhd wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution to obesity is a lifestyle change, or dealing with the underlying (psychological) problems. I'm all for aiding people in their lifestyle changes, through medicine or other means, but there is no drug that can fix obesity. Medicating obesity is like taking pills to make smoking healthy. This is just the next step in the ultimate dream, losing weight without putting in effort necessary. If you need to keep…

This is about as helpful as saying the solution is to pray more. You're not wrong, but very few obese people are willing/able to do it. > Medicating obesity is like taking pills to make smoking healthy. This is wrong though. Eating is not unhealthy. Overeating is. These drugs stop people from overeating.

I've never met anyone who just managed to lose lots of weight and maintain their healthy weight all by themselves. Combating obesity requires huge changes to one's lifestyle, with months or even years of feeling (slightly) hungry as a side effect. Very few people have such discipline.

It's not a measure of willing, it's about access to treatment that isn't a nice, quick, profitable pill that you end up hooked on.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#288

Post by nindalf »

yunwal wrote: post #271
HyperSane wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds false to me. I suppose for someone used to eating 10 to 20 thousand calories per day suddenly going to 1500 would be stressful but if gently tapered no one should have any issues.

I mean the obvious counterexample is someone who eats 1500 calories of real food and 2500 calories of junk food a day. If you scale that down by half you start getting all sorts of nutrient deficiencies well before hitting your target weight. But there are subtler versions of this. People who live in food deserts, only have access to iceberg lettuce and freezer-burned tomatoes as produce are gonna have a tough time g…

What's the issue with iceberg lettuce?

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#289

Post by HDThoreaun »

jeroenhd wrote: post #287
HDThoreaun wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is about as helpful as saying the solution is to pray more. You're not wrong, but very few obese people are willing/able to do it. > Medicating obesity is like taking pills to make smoking healthy. This is wrong though. Eating is not unhealthy. Overeating is. These drugs stop people from overeating.

I've never met anyone who just managed to lose lots of weight and maintain their healthy weight all by themselves. Combating obesity requires huge changes to one's lifestyle, with months or even years of feeling (slightly) hungry as a side effect. Very few people have such discipline. It's not a measure of willing, it's about access to treatment that isn't a nice, quick, profitable pill that you end up hooked on.

But that's the point... These drugs simply make you less hungry. They take what was the herculean task of eating less than your body urges you to and turns it into feeling totally stuffed after 1000 calories a day. It's no longer a question of willpower or suffering all day feeling hungry.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#290

Post by HyperSane »

hgomersall wrote: post #277
HyperSane wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I know you're really attached to the energy imbalance theory of obesity. " It isn't a theory, it is a fact. It is basic thermodynamics. The human body requires a constant amount of energy for basic operation and activity. Any excess is stored as fat for future use. Creating fat requires calories that HAVE to come from food. Eat few enough calories and you WILL lose weight. Eat zero and you WILL die. Eat 20,000/day f…

The problem, which I can't work out if you know about but ignoring or are ignorant of, is that humans have inordinately strong control systems to maintain some state, as well as hugely influential effects from e.g. a gut biome. To say "it's just thermodynamics" might be right as far as the physics goes, but it doesn't recognise that biological drives overwhelm everything. It's hugely complicated how energy expenditur…

"humans have inordinately strong control systems to maintain some state"

If energy intake matches energy needs then body fat percentage stays the same.

If energy intake exceeds energy needs then body fat percentage increases as the body stored the excess as fat.

If energy needs exceed energy intake then body fat percentage decreases as fat is used as fuel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal_metabolic_rate

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