Live data from Hacker News

Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

nature.com

51–60 of 88 posts

Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how do you know it is from eating vegetables and not just dialed down with time or other factors?

The psychiatrists I saw years ago said it will only get worse with time, and he gave me an antipsychotics treatment, I tried 4 months then stopped because my brain was so disconnected, I felt like a vegetable, I couldn't even write or talk properly. Antidepressant or lighter drugs didn't have much effect. So I tried to cure myself with other ways (a bit coincidentally with food)

or pharmanutrition as it's been rebranded :)

Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah there isn’t randomized controlled trials or systematic review on any of this stuff so your company is glorified snake oil and you really should be ashamed. Get the evidence first before trying to take people’s money (AND data!).

What? Zoe is co-founded by Tim Spector, who is very well respected epidemiologist, Zoe did a lot of work in the UK on Covid tracking and Tim was awarded an OBE for his work, are you aware of that or just painting it with the same brush as all these snake oil startups?

Legit question: What does that have to do with anything?

More specifically: Why does being an epidemiologist qualify you to have an opinion on gut microbiomes?

Even more specifically: DO you have randomized, controlled trials to point to? Otherwise, this is just an argument from authority, and one who's experience is not clear is relevant.

Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#53
post #19
post #2

I've dealt with colon cancer in 2016 and again now in the present. I don't what the hell is driving it, but the gut biome is fascinating. It's definitely made me look at my diet and food variety much more seriously. I've started taking probiotics, drinking kombucha from time to time and adopting a more whole food / plant based diet. Does it have an affect? who the heck knows.

(Disclaimer upfront: I am not a doctor or medical professional.) Kombucha often contains some alcohol. I'd suggest being cautious about alcohol consumption - frankly, eliminating it altogether from your diet would be my personal suggestion; there is evidence of increased risk of colon cancer from alcohol. Just grabbing the first thing I found: "Moderate to heavy alcohol consumption is associated with 1.2- to 1.5-fold…

Moderate consumption was previously defined as 1-2 drinks per day for men or 7 a week, which does not seem moderate at all. This guideline has recently been changed in some countries to 1-2 a week.

a 1.5 fold increase of risk is not necessarily significant if the baseline risk is low, but notwithstanding, I'm not convinced that actually moderate consumption of alcohol poses much of a risk.

Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#54
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probiotics do not feed bacteria, they are bacteria. SCFAs, butyrate, etc. are critical components for overall health, and especially in colon health and the normal functioning of apoptosis and other mechanisms. Prebiotic plant fiber feeds the healthy bacteria which produce those. Eating WFPB helps the healthy bacteria thrive and starve out the bad ones. Trying to intentionally repress the entire microbiome is a recip…

I doubt that it's possible to target "healthy bacteria" with diet prebiotic plant fiber (probiotics are bacteria and won't "feed", you're right) -- it's random, unfortunately. Low endotoxin load > health effects of butyrate etc, if you have serious issues like IBS or crohns

Outcomes are generally favorable with high fiber consumption, and unfavorable with low fiber consumption (or high sugar).

Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah there isn’t randomized controlled trials or systematic review on any of this stuff so your company is glorified snake oil and you really should be ashamed. Get the evidence first before trying to take people’s money (AND data!).

What? Zoe is co-founded by Tim Spector, who is very well respected epidemiologist, Zoe did a lot of work in the UK on Covid tracking and Tim was awarded an OBE for his work, are you aware of that or just painting it with the same brush as all these snake oil startups?

What does Covid tracking have to epidemiology have to do with the gut biome?

Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a suggestion for a test for you ; A Yogi master I once knew said to not eat onions (nightshades) as they interfere with your psychic aura or something. Since you seem to have a handle on your diet, may I request you do an cleanse of sorts and not eat onions for ~1 month and report if you feel any differences?

I wonder if "interfering with your aura" is just one interpretation of the inflammation and digestive issues that nightshades can cause. If I was living before medicine was a common practice I'd probably attribute diarrhea and cramps to "psychic auras" as well.

Quackery around “nightshades” should sound the same to you as quackery around “psychic auras” - they are in the same ballpark.

Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#57

Artificial food coloring definitely messes kids up. I haven't seen it explained precisely but it definitely seems to mess up something physiologically.

Why is this downvoted? One can find cases where this was cleary the case on the internet. I remember one case where just the artificial coloring in some medicine pill was the issue.

Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#58
post #47
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Disclaimer upfront: I am not a doctor or medical professional.) Kombucha often contains some alcohol. I'd suggest being cautious about alcohol consumption - frankly, eliminating it altogether from your diet would be my personal suggestion; there is evidence of increased risk of colon cancer from alcohol. Just grabbing the first thing I found: "Moderate to heavy alcohol consumption is associated with 1.2- to 1.5-fold…

Kombucha has about 0.5% alcohol by volume [0] (a ripe banana has 0.4%) so it’s not really a reasonable risk per the studies you link to. I think this is a foolish interpretation and even as a non medical doctor it’s easy to look at the alcohol content and think critically. Kombucha has 1/10 the alcohol of a beer. So you would need to drink 40 12oz kombuchas in an hour to be intoxicated (moderate alcohol use). That’s…

Alcohol is a high energy, reactive species. Both it and its downstream metabolic products cause a host of DNA degradation: cross-linking, etc. Accumulation of this class of damage causes aging, cancer, dysfunction, and other cellular disease states.

Every nutritive food we intake, including the gaseous and reactive molecular oxygen, is reactive and damaging. Some are worse than others, but we can control what we consume.

In time, our view of many of the things we do - breathing dirty air, consuming too much alcohol, maintaining an unhealthy gut microbiomes, etc., will inform new habits.

We don't know what the lower bound of safe alcohol consumption is. Modest consumption probably increases risks, but it may be negligible against the background noise of everything else we bump into. The effects will also sum with any other bad habits an individual may have. Population studies are messy, but we do know the biochemistry.

I only had an undergraduate biochem + general chemistry degree, so I'm not "credentialed" in this space. I continue to read the literature regularly, though, because it interests me deeply. I do worry about alcohol consumption's effects on my health, even though I continue to drink kombucha and have a cocktail every now and again. It still wears on me.

We're all killing ourselves slowly through eating, breathing, and metabolizing. You can worry about it, you can disregard it, you can make small changes, etc. We're all dying, though.

Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#59

I had schizophrenia and still have, but it's now not as prevalent after years of eating mostly vegetable, raw, and very ripe, fermented sometimes (like when peppers, onions, garlic for example are getting soft, people usually call them "rotten", but I prefer them like this actually, there can even be some bacteria formation on it, it doesn't matter). That with regular walking/running outdoor helped me so much. A typi…

I have a suggestion for a test for you ; A Yogi master I once knew said to not eat onions (nightshades) as they interfere with your psychic aura or something. Since you seem to have a handle on your diet, may I request you do an cleanse of sorts and not eat onions for ~1 month and report if you feel any differences?

[deleted]

Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#60
post #6

How does one know one has a healthy gut? Is it possible to have the wrong gut micro biome but not have any gastrointestinal symptoms?

You have regular bowel movements, nicely formed stool, don't have any bloating/burping/gas, don't feel sluggish after you eat, and you have enough energy and feel healthy
Post reply on HN