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Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

nature.com

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Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#41

Post by throwaway482940 »

kanyethegreat wrote: post #5
throwaway482940 wrote: post #3

About five years ago, after experimenting with some diet changes, I started having some pretty terrible digestive issues, like extremely bloating and indigestion. The issues would fluctuate, sometimes being much worse than others. Along with it came personality changes, like apathy, and they would also fluctuate along with the digestive issues. It's actually pretty scary how much it affected my brain. There are times…

did you track causation? like what diet changes led to the behavioral changes?

It's hard to say. The diet was vegan, but it was a poorly implemented vegan diet. I was basically eating a lot of fruit and legumes, far too much fruit I should say. Once I started having the digestive issues, I started reading about it on the Internet, and I came across some sites talking about copper overload, how vegan diets inevitably suffer from an inbalance between zinc and copper, but I'm not sure if it's pseudoscience or not. I do have low ceruloplasmin, which is the molecule that carries copper around the blood, so that is at least interesting, but yeah, could be coincidence. In any case, I haven't managed to fix it unfortunately, even after switching to an ordinary diet.

Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#42

Post by 11235813213455 »

poisonarena wrote: post #28
11235813213455 wrote: post #21

I had schizophrenia and still have, but it's now not as prevalent after years of eating mostly vegetable, raw, and very ripe, fermented sometimes (like when peppers, onions, garlic for example are getting soft, people usually call them "rotten", but I prefer them like this actually, there can even be some bacteria formation on it, it doesn't matter). That with regular walking/running outdoor helped me so much. A typi…

how do you know it is from eating vegetables and not just dialed down with time or other factors?

The psychiatrists I saw years ago said it will only get worse with time, and he gave me an antipsychotics treatment, I tried 4 months then stopped because my brain was so disconnected, I felt like a vegetable, I couldn't even write or talk properly. Antidepressant or lighter drugs didn't have much effect. So I tried to cure myself with other ways (a bit coincidentally with food)

Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#43

Post by DoktorDelta »

samstave wrote: post #32
11235813213455 wrote: post #21

I had schizophrenia and still have, but it's now not as prevalent after years of eating mostly vegetable, raw, and very ripe, fermented sometimes (like when peppers, onions, garlic for example are getting soft, people usually call them "rotten", but I prefer them like this actually, there can even be some bacteria formation on it, it doesn't matter). That with regular walking/running outdoor helped me so much. A typi…

I have a suggestion for a test for you ; A Yogi master I once knew said to not eat onions (nightshades) as they interfere with your psychic aura or something. Since you seem to have a handle on your diet, may I request you do an cleanse of sorts and not eat onions for ~1 month and report if you feel any differences?

I wonder if "interfering with your aura" is just one interpretation of the inflammation and digestive issues that nightshades can cause.

If I was living before medicine was a common practice I'd probably attribute diarrhea and cramps to "psychic auras" as well.

Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#44

Post by throwaway482940 »

Fauntleroy wrote: post #7
throwaway482940 wrote: post #3

About five years ago, after experimenting with some diet changes, I started having some pretty terrible digestive issues, like extremely bloating and indigestion. The issues would fluctuate, sometimes being much worse than others. Along with it came personality changes, like apathy, and they would also fluctuate along with the digestive issues. It's actually pretty scary how much it affected my brain. There are times…

Sorry if I'm reading into this too much, but did the symptoms you described above ultimately lead to you abandoning veganism? Also, what were the dietary changes that caused those symptoms?

Yeah, I ended up abandoning veganism, because I no longer felt (and feel) the empathy that I did back in the day (if there's much left). Being able to experience the world through the lenses of someone with low empathy makes you a little sympathetic (heh) to those that are born like that. Basically my decisions are purely rational as of today. I'm lucky to not be impulsive at all; if I were, I would have fewer friends than I do.

I briefly answered the dietary changes in another comment.

Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#45

Post by zargon »

throwaway482940 wrote: post #41
kanyethegreat wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

did you track causation? like what diet changes led to the behavioral changes?

It's hard to say. The diet was vegan, but it was a poorly implemented vegan diet. I was basically eating a lot of fruit and legumes, far too much fruit I should say. Once I started having the digestive issues, I started reading about it on the Internet, and I came across some sites talking about copper overload, how vegan diets inevitably suffer from an inbalance between zinc and copper, but I'm not sure if it's pseu…

Your microbiome takes time to adapt to what you're eating and if you drastically increased fiber suddenly, it was likely not prepared for it. It could also have had a weak ability to deal with certain types of fiber. Often it's oligosaccharides (beans). The FODMAP process helps you figure out which fiber your gut may be sensitive to and then you can start low and gradually increase it over time.

Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#46

Post by felixbraun »

zargon wrote: post #38
felixbraun wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing the exact opposite might help — probiotics feed harmful bacteria as well and a different strategy would be to simply try to keep your microbiome as basic and unintrusive as possible, allowing the gut to calm and heal. It’s easier said than done; recommend looking into natural antibiotics (eg cooked white button mushrooms), indigestible fibre to ensure regular movements, which more than anything lowers endotoxin…

Probiotics do not feed bacteria, they are bacteria. SCFAs, butyrate, etc. are critical components for overall health, and especially in colon health and the normal functioning of apoptosis and other mechanisms. Prebiotic plant fiber feeds the healthy bacteria which produce those. Eating WFPB helps the healthy bacteria thrive and starve out the bad ones. Trying to intentionally repress the entire microbiome is a recip…

I doubt that it's possible to target "healthy bacteria" with diet prebiotic plant fiber (probiotics are bacteria and won't "feed", you're right) -- it's random, unfortunately.

Low endotoxin load > health effects of butyrate etc, if you have serious issues like IBS or crohns

Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#47

Post by prepend »

sosilkj wrote: post #19
Wonnk13 wrote: post #2

I've dealt with colon cancer in 2016 and again now in the present. I don't what the hell is driving it, but the gut biome is fascinating. It's definitely made me look at my diet and food variety much more seriously. I've started taking probiotics, drinking kombucha from time to time and adopting a more whole food / plant based diet. Does it have an affect? who the heck knows.

(Disclaimer upfront: I am not a doctor or medical professional.) Kombucha often contains some alcohol. I'd suggest being cautious about alcohol consumption - frankly, eliminating it altogether from your diet would be my personal suggestion; there is evidence of increased risk of colon cancer from alcohol. Just grabbing the first thing I found: "Moderate to heavy alcohol consumption is associated with 1.2- to 1.5-fold…

Kombucha has about 0.5% alcohol by volume [0] (a ripe banana has 0.4%) so it’s not really a reasonable risk per the studies you link to. I think this is a foolish interpretation and even as a non medical doctor it’s easy to look at the alcohol content and think critically.

Kombucha has 1/10 the alcohol of a beer. So you would need to drink 40 12oz kombuchas in an hour to be intoxicated (moderate alcohol use). That’s almost 4 gallons and really not practical a single time, much less daily like what contributes to colon cancer risk.

I suspect you’re being downvoted because your comment is low value, wrong, and doesn’t need to be seen. For specific feedback, I think you can think critically about whether the level of alcohol applies to the advice you give.

It’s the dose that makes toxicity. Working to eliminate completely things that don’t matter reflect a wrong understanding of nature.

[0] https://www.no1living.com/blogs/blog/is-kombucha-alcoholic

Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#48

Post by throwaway482940 »

happylion0801 wrote: post #18
throwaway482940 wrote: post #3

About five years ago, after experimenting with some diet changes, I started having some pretty terrible digestive issues, like extremely bloating and indigestion. The issues would fluctuate, sometimes being much worse than others. Along with it came personality changes, like apathy, and they would also fluctuate along with the digestive issues. It's actually pretty scary how much it affected my brain. There are times…

Exactly have the same experience as you. After I got diagnosed with IBS, I started having pretty huge personality changes lasting to this day. No idea the path to recovery is

Yeah, it's pretty complicated. I have gotten blood, stool, and urine tests and all have come out fine. Food that previously would never cause any issues cause massive problems nowadays. Did your issues come from any dietary changes? How did they appear?

Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#49

Post by prepend »

sosilkj wrote: post #40
porphyra wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't kombucha way less than "moderate to heavy alcohol consumption"? Besides, small amounts of alcohol form naturally from stuff fermenting in your gut. To be honest, I would be more concerned about my tooth enamel degrading from heavy kombucha consumption (as it is very acidic) rather than the alcohol content.

It seems like the question you're posing is: in the context of colon cancer risk, if one's alcohol consumption isn't enough to reach the category of "moderate", does that mean the increased risk is zero (or insignificant)? I don't know the answer to that. That's something that could perhaps be determined by reviewing the literature. Edit: Not that anyone cares, but I guess I'll say a bit more: I don't know what brand…

It’s not reasonable to conclude that because moderate alcohol causes an effect that less than that causes a diminished effect.

You need evidence, or at least some logical basis, to make a claim or believe such a thing.

You can review the literature to find something. Typically is a paper is publishing about moderate levels causing an effect they will cite or be cited by other studies showing effects from other levels.

There are many things in nature that are harmless at some level and become harmful at another level. And there’s no negative effect whatsoever from the appropriate level.

Re: Gut microbes could drive brain disorders

#50

Post by qbrass »

samstave wrote: post #32
11235813213455 wrote: post #21

I had schizophrenia and still have, but it's now not as prevalent after years of eating mostly vegetable, raw, and very ripe, fermented sometimes (like when peppers, onions, garlic for example are getting soft, people usually call them "rotten", but I prefer them like this actually, there can even be some bacteria formation on it, it doesn't matter). That with regular walking/running outdoor helped me so much. A typi…

I have a suggestion for a test for you ; A Yogi master I once knew said to not eat onions (nightshades) as they interfere with your psychic aura or something. Since you seem to have a handle on your diet, may I request you do an cleanse of sorts and not eat onions for ~1 month and report if you feel any differences?

Onions and garlic are allium. Nightshades are tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant, and peppers.
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