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Upwork just stole $10k from me

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Re: Upwork just stole $10k from me

#41

Post by madaxe_again »

throwbadubadu wrote: post #36
madaxe_again wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s possibly related, however. The likely cause for their ban is going to be KYC getting around to review and money laundering regs/insurers demanding a certain course of action - cessation and seizure, possibly a report to relevant LE. Platforms like eBay and upwork - anything where there’s a transfer of money between two third parties - have an enormous duty of responsibility around laundering and fraud, and even…

Result in a ban and just keep that amount of money? They have to deliver it somewhere, so that both of the affected sites can clarify, object.. or at least learn and understand what this is about??

No. They hold onto it precisely so that no involved parties have any clue what just happened, and to allow LE time to act if necessary. If the parties are proven innocent, then monies are returned, but that usually requires a party to lawyer up.

I’ve seen it happen, with bank accounts, and sizeable sums of legitimately obtained money. HSBC sat on several million dollars of a friend’s business for two years - they couldn’t make payroll etc., and resultantly folded. They ultimately got their money back, but it took a fortune in lawyers, court visits, etc.

Re: Upwork just stole $10k from me

#43

Post by madaxe_again »

londons_explore wrote: post #37
throwbadubadu wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Result in a ban and just keep that amount of money? They have to deliver it somewhere, so that both of the affected sites can clarify, object.. or at least learn and understand what this is about??

They generally don't 'seize' the money... They 'freeze' the money... And then won't release it without a court order. However it is typically pretty easy to get a court order, because they won't fight against you in court. They just want a court to tell them to release the money, because then any money laundering isn't their fault - they're just doing what the court asked.

Getting a court order can be hard, if the court has any reasonable doubt, and you end up with them treating the freeze as grounds for reasonable doubt and then require absurd degrees of evidence to the contrary. It’s particularly hard if you’re based somewhere tricky, and the court wants you in London, in person, next Tuesday.

Re: Upwork just stole $10k from me

#44

Post by ajb »

One of the reasons that criminal acts are criminal is that they destroy value. For example, when metal prices go up, criminals steal wires from railway lines. This gains them a couple of hundred bucks of metal, and costs tens of thousands in disruption and reinstallation.

This kind of action by companies should be criminal, because they just destroyed economic activity worth at least $10000, because they didn't want to spend a little more on due diligence. Which could even have been put up as a bond by their client. My guess is that it would have cost <1 hour's work to validate this guy, and obviously he would rather bond that than lost the $10000. But no.

Re: Upwork just stole $10k from me

#45

Post by i0nutzb »

zamnos wrote: post #34
bwb wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To mention, none of these are like Upwork. I've tried them all, and they don't really have competition that makes it as easy as Upwork to find and hire someone. Freelancer.com is the nearest. The rest are doing very diff models. TopTal doesn't even belong on a comparison list.

For the uninitiated, mind explaining why TopTal (and the rest) don't look at all the same?

You go through an addmission process that's pretty much similar to an employement process (several interviews, technical interviews, tests etc).

After you get in, most of the jobs you get are strongly limited to your particular skill (so you won't be able to see what coding jobs are available if you're a designer).

Then, the customer aquisition process is slightly different, as you don't talk straight to the client while you're „bidding”, but with a recruiter, who deals with selecting the right candidate for a job.

Finally, for most of the jobs you don't even have to _apply_, as recruiters constantly send you messages for potential jobs.

Now, upwork & freelancer are mostly a race to the bottom; I personally got banned from upwork for having the audacity to apply to jobs and not winning any (because I didn't wanted to work for peanuts).

Re: Upwork just stole $10k from me

#48

Post by negamax »

henpa wrote: post #40

I don't understand why all of these replies from the big companies come with something like "we are not able to revert this decision" somewhere in the text. It shows such an arrogance!

That was my first thought. Why can't they admit that they messed up. Total arrogance

Re: Upwork just stole $10k from me

#49

Post by JumpCrisscross »

goodpoint wrote: post #17
luckylion wrote: post #9

What's the best approach for suing US companies if you're not in the US? I doubt the effort to bring an international case will be worth it for $10k. Can you easily sue in the US as a non-citizen + non-resident? Can you expect one of those outrageously high verdicts so that lawyers might take your case for a cut of the winnings if they believe they have a good chance to either win or settle?

For $10K there is no solution and companies know that. That's why it is becoming a big risk.

> $10K there is no solution and companies know that

Arbitration.

Unfortunately, it’s getting easier for companies to replace mandatory consumer arbitration with liability caps (or get folks to opt out of arb), which leaves one SOL.

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