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Analysis finds Australia’s inflation being driven by company profits, not wages

theguardian.com

111–120 of 316 posts

Re: Analysis finds Australia’s inflation being driven by company profits, not wages

#111
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As opposed to what, them normally not trying to increase profits? Had the pandemic not happened, would we expect CEOs to be like "meh, the last few years were pretty good so I'm not going to try too hard to make more money"?

> As opposed to what, them normally not trying to increase profits? yea, actually that. i dont think it would be unprecedented if some companies said "hey we are making a healthy profit already, so in order to not harm our customers we'd like to keep prices as they are or reduce them if possible"...

>i dont think it would be unprecedented if some companies said "hey we are making a healthy profit already, so in order to not harm our customers we'd like to keep prices as they are or reduce them if possible"...

It won't be unprecedented that a few companies (especially founder/family controlled) showed alturism like this, but I'd be very surprised if a publicly held company straight up told its shareholders that it was going to kick back and relax this quarter because things are already pretty good.

Re: Analysis finds Australia’s inflation being driven by company profits, not wages

#112
This is absolutely garbage, and doesn't belong on HN.

From their 'analysis':

"Record profits on petroleum and mining activities (reinforced by a spike in global oil and gas prices following the invasion of Ukraine) led this surge, but the overall corporate sector experienced the most rapid growth in profits of any comparable period in 35 years."

So because of global shortages, commodity prices reached record highs, and companies most of which are price takers benefited from that, is now suddenly corporate greed?

BHP doesn't set the price for Iron Ore, the market does. BP doesn't set the price for Oil or Natural Gas, the market does. When you cut off Russia who are a key supplier of those goods, that creates shortages and causes prices to spike. This means companies which extract those goods will make more money as long as costs remain the same.

Most companies aren't making record breaking profits, their profits are rebounding to pre-COVID levels. Of course they look good compared to COVID times, when demand was suppressed.

Re: Analysis finds Australia’s inflation being driven by company profits, not wages

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The wage-price spiral theory of inflation is bunk. Inflation is caused by the devaluation of excessive printing of money. is that the only possible cause?

> is that the only possible cause? No, its is a definitional axiom of certain “economic” religious sects, like the Austrian school. In a sense, since prices are a product of a number of factors including money supply, you can always construct a hypothetical alternative monetary policy which would prevent inflation, so any inflation can dogmatically be constructed to be a consequence of too-loose monetary policy.

Religion? You'll have to do better than that.

Meanwhile, what's your take on the historical fact that gold rushes (when money was backed by gold) resulted in inflation?

What's your take on the fact that the US had net zero inflation from 1800 to 1914, and endemic inflation ever since (except for a brief period during the Depression)?

And why are oil price hikes always blamed for inflation, but when oil prices fall there's no deflation?

Let's face it. Inflation is the result of the Fed policy of "spend all you want - we'll just print more!"

Re: Analysis finds Australia’s inflation being driven by company profits, not wages

#114
post #9

The wage-price spiral theory of inflation is bunk. Inflation is caused by the devaluation of excessive printing of money.

Every time your local bank issues a loan, it creates money out of thin air.

It's backed by collateral.

And when the loan is paid back, the money is destroyed.

Note that when the Fed borrows money, it is not backed by anything but the promise to borrow even more money to pay it back. Hence, inflation.

Re: Analysis finds Australia’s inflation being driven by company profits, not wages

#115
post #21

It's yet another example of the gap that always exists between economic theory and economic practice. In this case, what we have is that every player in the food chain has taken advantage of supply shortage to eke out additional margin along the way. And why not? Your products are in demand and there are buyers who are willing to pay more than the theoretical market price. The actual situation is that even if competi…

>Most of it goes to the lie that is the premise that interest rates are really the optimal way to control inflation

There are only 3 ways to decrease inflation:

- Interest rates

- Price controls. This tends to have a lot of harmful side effects, such as the necessity of rationing and discentivizing the production of whatever you're price controlling. You only really do this for a few goods, so this doesn't help overall inflation much, if at all.

- Effective policy and investments increasing the quantity or quality of goods and services. This is perhaps the "best" way to decrease inflation, but it takes years, if not decades to materialize. More importantly, it requires the elected members of government to formulate and agree on, which unfortunately is becoming increasingly rare.

>all you are doing is causing misery and maybe adding fuel to the fire as people already maxed out buying essentials are in fact going to seek (require) higher salaries when you add to their cost of living.

This is moot because when interest rates were 0, inflation was outpacing wage increases. Let's say that wasn't the case and inflation was 10% and wages increase 10%. All evens out right? Not really. The problem is that not the people can take advantage of an inflation-induced wage increase. Younger people, with fewer commitments are able to job hop to a better employer or prepare to negotiate for a pay raise. Meanwhile, other people don't have the bandwidth to do so or are retired and depend of fix income, but they still need to face the costs of inflation, and these are also the people who are the most vulnerable.

So in the end, all we can do is raise interest rates.

Also, Australia doesn't really have a choice, because the US is set on raising interest rates. Any country that doesn't follow will have their currency severely devalued when investors sell buy American bonds over their own.

Re: Analysis finds Australia’s inflation being driven by company profits, not wages

#116
post #112

This is absolutely garbage, and doesn't belong on HN. From their 'analysis': "Record profits on petroleum and mining activities (reinforced by a spike in global oil and gas prices following the invasion of Ukraine) led this surge, but the overall corporate sector experienced the most rapid growth in profits of any comparable period in 35 years." So because of global shortages, commodity prices reached record highs, a…

[flagged]

Re: Analysis finds Australia’s inflation being driven by company profits, not wages

#117

There are so many threads here. The reserve bank governor is deeply unpopular in the broader public because of 2021 comments he made about there being no interest rate increases needed until 2024 [1]. As mentioned in the article, many companies are posting record profits, including supermarkets [2] - leaving low and middle income people hurting, and working more hours or side jobs. Those same people also face an adve…

All very good points! We've had wage stagnation for ~15 years. I've long wondered what it is about our job market that keeps wages down whilst company profits continue to grow. Perhaps an unspoken collusion around wages, or maybe lack of salary growth in government jobs that in turn pushes the private sector. Lack of competition and choices is another issue, as is Australia's dispersion of cities. It's not straight f…

I don't feel as though the conclusion is unspoken. The government specifically and clearly sets out to keep wages suppressed by the number of 'skilled' and 'unskilled' visas it approves. Meanwhile we have the lowest vacancy rates ever and the rate in which we are building homes is still out stripped by immigration.

You raise a really good rate with the lack of workforce mobility. From outside Australia it is probably really hard to understand how immobile our workforce is considering how large the country is. The governments at both a federal and state level seem to be very keen on ensuring the professional working class who could be remote stay immobile putting greater pressure on cost of livings in centralised cities.

Re: Analysis finds Australia’s inflation being driven by company profits, not wages

#118
post #112

This is absolutely garbage, and doesn't belong on HN. From their 'analysis': "Record profits on petroleum and mining activities (reinforced by a spike in global oil and gas prices following the invasion of Ukraine) led this surge, but the overall corporate sector experienced the most rapid growth in profits of any comparable period in 35 years." So because of global shortages, commodity prices reached record highs, a…

It’s so wrong to pretend that sellers don’t have a say in how much they ask for their goods that it borders on disingenuous. To blame the market (as if that existed apart from buyers and sellers) is to ascribe agency to something which is wholly responsive in fact.

If buyers are willing to pay $80 for a barrel of oil, must BP ask for $80 and not a cent less? Of course not. You may claim they are right to do so, but don’t pretend they have no choice and therefore no blame if there are ill effects to such pricing.

Re: Analysis finds Australia’s inflation being driven by company profits, not wages

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is that the only possible cause? No, its is a definitional axiom of certain “economic” religious sects, like the Austrian school. In a sense, since prices are a product of a number of factors including money supply, you can always construct a hypothetical alternative monetary policy which would prevent inflation, so any inflation can dogmatically be constructed to be a consequence of too-loose monetary policy.

Religion? You'll have to do better than that. Meanwhile, what's your take on the historical fact that gold rushes (when money was backed by gold) resulted in inflation? What's your take on the fact that the US had net zero inflation from 1800 to 1914, and endemic inflation ever since (except for a brief period during the Depression)? And why are oil price hikes always blamed for inflation, but when oil prices fall th…

> Religion? You’ll have to do better than that.

The Austrian school is expressly, overtly, an unashamedly ideologically normative rather than empirically descriptive, which is why they are the example I cited.

> Meanwhile, what’s your take on the historical fact that gold rushes (when money was backed by gold) resulted in inflation?

That money supply changes can cause inflation is not the same as all inflation being the fault of money supply changes.

> What’s your take on the fact that the US had net zero inflation from 1800 to 1914, and endemic inflation ever since (except for a brief period during the Depression)?

Well, that its false, there have been brief deflationary periods far more recently than the Great Depression (the most notable recent one, though not actually the most recent, being during the Great Recession.)

> And why are oil price hikes always blamed for inflation, but when oil prices fall there’s no deflation?

Oil price falls can lead to deflation (IIRC, that was the main cause of the brief, slight 2015 deflation).

> Let’s face it. Inflation is the result of the Fed policy of “spend all you want - we’ll just print more!”

A baseline bias to low inflation is a deliberate policy goal of the Fed (and basically every central bank, its not something unique about the Fed); that doesn’t mean every instance of actual inflation is accurately solely attributable to monetary policy as the cause. There are some inflation spikes that are due to factors like exogenous supply issues, there are others that are due to monetary policy miscalibration. The latter are more easily resolved, as demonstrated by the intense–but brief–post-COVID-recession inflation spike. (Which was, while there were other factors which contributed to it, largely caused by the failure to sufficiently-quickly dial back monetary stimulus in the rebound from the brief-but-sharp COVID recession.)

Re: Analysis finds Australia’s inflation being driven by company profits, not wages

#120
post #112

This is absolutely garbage, and doesn't belong on HN. From their 'analysis': "Record profits on petroleum and mining activities (reinforced by a spike in global oil and gas prices following the invasion of Ukraine) led this surge, but the overall corporate sector experienced the most rapid growth in profits of any comparable period in 35 years." So because of global shortages, commodity prices reached record highs, a…

In Australia businesses like supermarkets, banks, the largest airline etc. have just announced huge profits in their latest reports.

I think the report definitely could have been better written, because a lot of the inflation is more due to passing on external cost increases, or domestic businesses raising their prices to account for inflation, and all keeping the same margins, hence resulting in larger profits in nominal terms. So I think it would have been more accurate if they’d put it that way.

The important thing is that it’s not demand driven - the RBA talks every update how scared they are and how important it is for them to avoid a “wage-price spiral”, which is nonsense. Median wages here have barely kept up with inflation for 10 years, and now they have gone strongly backwards. Absolutely no sign of any kind of spiral…

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