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Request for Startups: Kill Hollywood.

ycombinator.com

491–500 of 697 posts

Re: Request for Startups: Kill Hollywood.

#491
post #58
post #9

Incidentally, Paul Buchheit deserves all the credit for this idea. The YC partners were having lunch yesterday and he suggested posting this RFS. Whereupon we all turned to Jessica, who is usually the one who talks us out of doing crazy things. I was kind of surprised she didn't try to talk us out of it.

Did you guys consider video games? I think that's already a viable alternative form of entertainment. I would argue video games already killed Hollywood, they just never pulled the sword out. $50 for 100+ hours of content vs $10 for roughly 2 hours? No contest.

Does anyone have figures for pokemon red / green (during the first few years of release) vs the whole of hollywood?

But I suspect that game production has been Hollywoodised; you have big publishers and big studios and whole teams of people. It's getting better with the rise of indie gaming, but that's still a tiny fraction of the market.

Re: Request for Startups: Kill Hollywood.

#492
I'm a filmmaker and killing Hollywood is the best thing you can do. It is burning to the ground and Nero plays the White House. But they cannot stop it since WE are remaking it. I worked pretty much my whole live in the entertainment industry, writing directing, plays, tours you name it I have done it, to a very high level. In 2007 I released a film and within a day it was on torrents and I was so MAD. Mad at everyone IRL but the internet. Why because before I'd released the film I had build the biggest game online at the time to promo the movie http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/334475. It was kinda popular. I'd built a site to support the film which got massive and all I wanted to do but put the film online because I knew it was the biggest way to promote it, it was already happening. But the investors and the sales company would NOT allow the film to go online for free, they just didn't get how big it could have been. They spurned the millions of viewer and plays we were getting daily to delay the release by going through the bullshit analogue route taking months to get it onto Amazon. It is something that taught me a lot. NOW I am building two start ups to rip a fucking huge hole in Hollywood. one is going to be a live performance/entertainment site open to anyone anywhere to enjoy live global talent to rise to the top and the other will be a live investment site. If you code if you're good and if you want to work with me hit me up mrsimoncathcart@googlemail.com I will respond to you message.

Re: Request for Startups: Kill Hollywood.

#493
post #473
post #76

If you define killing hollywood by not actually consuming any of its products either legally or illegally then video game playthoughs are doing it for me. http://www.youtube.com/user/SSoHPKC/videos He uploads between 6-10 ten to fifteen minute video's per day on most major releases. Plus multiplayer games like killing floor, pay day the heist, minecraft e.t.c. A weird mix between talk radio, motion picture and realit…

Thanks for this comment; this is news to me, I had no idea these things existed. I just watched one video and it's just like you said: a combination of talk radio, motion picture and reality TV (sort of like Jackass meets NPR...) Who would have thought watching someone else play a game could be entertaining, but if the player has funny comments and insights, it sure is. That could become big (or is it already...?)

Will it be big? I think so and I think minecraft will be the enabler which really lets it flourish, there are already people out there making custom minecraft maps which these guys play. I could envisage a situation not far from now when they're actively commissioning maps with certain aspects which make watching them being played through even more entertaining.

Ultimately I think minecraft will be the ultimate world/set building tool and these guys will use it to make great entertainment.

Re: Request for Startups: Kill Hollywood.

#494
post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original post ends by asking the wrong - and an extremely limiting - question. Technological innovations of camera/film/projectors (and later broadcast & receivers) made motion pictures possible . These came first. The current "Hollywood" production-distribution-revenue model came after, as a result of the economics of what it took to make motion pictures profitable . So, "Hollywood" is less the entertainment, an…

This post nails it. You're talking about disrupting two things, neither of which are entertainment: distribution of finished goods (external), and the system within that's been in place since the fall of the studio system in the '60s (internal). Neither of these things have that much to do with entertainment. Technology has made being a filmmaker far, far cheaper than it used to be even in the heyday of indie film in…

Okay, you started out very sensible and then took a pretty sharp left turn with targeting CAA and SAG. I was hoping to ask if you could elaborate on your thought process to help us better understand your viewpoint.

Re: Request for Startups: Kill Hollywood.

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever gave you the idea that 7000+ karma entitles you to anything on HN?

Point count is the equivalent of contribution. It means you perhaps said something that opened someone else's eyes or led the conversation in a positive direction. Guidelines are to prevent people who don't contribute valuable ideas (e.g. trolls) from bringing the conversation down. So, if someone has proven them self not to be a troll, I think they're entitled to lose their temper every once in a while provided they…

VestedContributors harm the community.

> The vested contributor is someone who believes they are entitled to a degree of indulgence or bending of the rules because of the duration and extent of their past contributions. In some cases, this view may be shared by other community members. The indulgence of vested contributors undermines FairProcess and the WikiNow. It is demoralizing to those who have made less widely recognized contributions, and to recent arrivals. An inside club or "cabal" can arise where there are a number of vested contributors who mutually reinforce.

(http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/VestedContributor)

Re: Request for Startups: Kill Hollywood.

#496

I am a director, I can speak on this from experience. Primary problem with producing movie/TV shows is money. It costs A LOT of money. Even shows you think can be done with a lower budget, it can't... currently. Reasons for high costs are numerous and I can expand on them (and will if someone asks me), but lets take that as an axiom for this post. It costs a lot of money, which means people who invest in content prod…

Please do expand on these reasons. What costs a lot for fundamental reasons? And what can be attacked with software?

You need filming equipment, a good script, stage infrastructure, well-performing or/and good-looking actors, repetition until they get it right, sound-tracks (with composers, interpreters, instruments & instrument people), editing, post-processing and maybe animation/special effects.

And it's an industry where profits are made at the high end of the market (you'd rather pay Tom Cruise $100 millions for the statistical guarantee of $200+ millions in Mission Impossible box-office openings rather than medium-quality people for no guarantee at all).

You can attack script-writing with software, or replace actors with computer animation done by software engineers, but you end up with poor low-end results or even more expensive budgets (that only make sense for computer-animated fans, see Toy Story).

The attack vector implied by pg was not necessary to make film-making cheaper but rather to make entertainment better and probably different. E.g.: video games took off in the last two decades, and their business model worked because every time you play a game you get at least slightly a different entertaining experience without any additional costs from the producers.

Re: Request for Startups: Kill Hollywood.

#497
post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're pushing for for the webseries model. There's some great work going on there - the big difficulty isn't the producing or financing, though. I'm part of the Seattle webseries community, and the big difficulty I keep seeing is - how do you get your series in front of people? So in a sense - I think marketing is the killer if you're going to compete head-to-head with Hollywood.

I disagree - it is distribution. You have a device in your room that is a push channel for Hollywood to stream its (and only its) content to you. It's the cable box. Ditto for cinemas. You don't need to out-market Hollywood (though achieving parity may be part of the equation). You need to create a more efficient production cycle, from artist to costumer. I'm thinking lean start-up. How can we reduce cycle time betwe…

I can't say I agree. That said, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "a more efficient production cycle, from artist to consumer". And I'm not sure how "[reducing the] cycle time between artist conception of an entertainment pitch and consumers evaluating it" is related to distribution. Could you elaborate?

Re: Request for Startups: Kill Hollywood.

#498

I am a director, I can speak on this from experience. Primary problem with producing movie/TV shows is money. It costs A LOT of money. Even shows you think can be done with a lower budget, it can't... currently. Reasons for high costs are numerous and I can expand on them (and will if someone asks me), but lets take that as an axiom for this post. It costs a lot of money, which means people who invest in content prod…

Please do expand on these reasons. What costs a lot for fundamental reasons? And what can be attacked with software?

There are three stages in production of movies and tv shows, roughly they are:

Preproduction: - where screenplay is written or adapted, cost is usually low unless rights are to be managed for original content you're adapting from. - Production schedule and directors shooting script is done, sometimes a storyboard too (skilled storyboard artists COULD be somewhat replaced by software and there are attempts) - Sound designers start their work (sound design is a major component of content along with images) - Composer starts their work - Location scouting and permits are secured (permits for natural locations can cost a serious amount of money) - Art director and art departement starts working on costumes (costs a lot of money) and designs for sets (we'll get back to this)

Production: - Camera and grip departement can get huge... I've done only a moderate size productions and my camera and grip dept. was 20-30 people (skilled labour that costs money)... also cameras cost (with RED little changed because camera itself is usually from rental so prices are more or less the same)... lenses cost (Ultra primes are around 250.000 euros per set - if someone can make a startup for prime lenses for PL mount there's your business)... grip costs (cranes, dollies, russian arms, whatever your production actually needs) - art department can also get huge, wardrobe, set, makeup... - talent - you need them before production for actors rehearsals and if their name is recognizable it bears marketing power, which they cash in from you

Postproduction: - Color Correction can get attacked with software, Assimilate Scratch software tried to attack it with their software but it is still expensive, Nucoda Baselight and Quantel are still very expensive... not to mention hardware ccosts you need to run 4k dpx files at realtime - VFX usually require a large amount of highly skilled labour with a serious hardware power for rendering - Prop dept. is rare in talent and costs a lot of money, traditional FX even more so - Sound designers which are good are rare, they cost, their hardware and software costs. Foley is even more rare to find.

And now most important part about pricing structure (falls in both preproduction and production) - Setpieces http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setpiece

Setpieces are what drives most of the costs in high budget movies, they are akin to large theatre production where there are extravagant sets. Building setpieces needs engineers, builders, material and is already shaved of from profit as much as possible.

Marketing and distribution is a sizeable chunk of money in a project too - and this is actually a part of disruption that could make a difference. If raising capital and subsequently marketing and distribution could be taken care of, it could work - but IMO only for low budget projects (up to $20 million).

Just to summarize a bit:

Even if by some kind of magic you could downsize in post production (lots of people, lots of hardware, lots of work) and do it for free and in preproduction if you could write a script for free, do locations scouting and production scheduling for free (movie magic scheduling software is $500 I think)... you still have 30-60 days of principal photography where you need set building, actors, 50+ crew, electricity, transportation, natural locations permits. Those are all highly skilled workers and if you only paid them you still break a $1 million budget, sans equipment and everything else. It's an expensive sport. Lucas calculated that a low budget movie is in a ballpark of $20 million - with marketing and distribution, half of that without it. He's right.

Re: Request for Startups: Kill Hollywood.

#499
post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question: Mega-productions like avatar rely mostly on special effects than storytelling. Are people still impressed by special effects and stunts? Aren't video games becoming more impressive to look at than movies? As a result, are these technical skills becoming less important?

A movie has something like 3x3 times the resolution of a video game.

Which is why the state of the art in Machinima is only a couple of years behind the state of the art in cinematic CGI.

(What you're pointing to is a problem that can be solved by adding cpu cores. Because movies aren't shown in real time during rendering. Yet.)

Re: Request for Startups: Kill Hollywood.

#500
post #440
post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason you can't mix the two, though. At my startup, we're building narrative driven games (like the old-school graphic adventures), reworked to feel more TV-like. So we're really trying to be careful about the whole passive vs active issue. Our take is - let the viewer be as passive as they want. We're making a narrative-heavy experience, just like films and TV. But we're adding an interactive twist so th…

If you haven't played it, you should take a look at King of Chicago by Cinemaware for the Amiga, which was pretty much the first game to let the gamer be arbitrarily passive (playing pretty much like a movie if you didn't do anything, but allowing you to decide every action if you wanted).

I'm unfamiliar with "King of Chicago". But now that you've pointed it out, I'm going to try and correct that. Thanks, vidrh!
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