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Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

independent.co.uk

241–250 of 301 posts

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It is not just about eating more calories than needed for a long time." Yes it is. It really is as simple as that, people just don't want to hear it. Historically food was scarce that it was nearly impossible to sustain a calorie surplus long enough to get fat. But some people did, that is why the rich used to be called "fat cats" but now calories are so cheap and delicious and lifestyles are so sedentary that it is…

>Yes it is. It really is as simple as that, people just don't want to hear it. Historically food was scarce that it was nearly impossible to sustain a calorie surplus long enough to get fat. But some people did, that is why the rich used to be called "fat cats" but now calories are so cheap and delicious and lifestyles are so sedentary that it is very easy for almost anyone to sustain the caloric surplus needed to be…

Self-reported calorie consumption is worthless.

But a reader questions the methodology of the researchers: “My main concern is that the calories are almost assuredly self-reported, which is notoriously unreliable.” Another reader agrees:

    In the 1980s, we weren’t walking around with a computer in our pockets to look up accurate calorie counts for everything that allowed us to store an accurate list of everything we’ve eaten and compute the calories based on that database. It was 100% self-reporting and calorie lookups “from memory” or done manually (complete with calculations) long after the fact. So the reports based on that old data might be suspect.
But another reader notes:

    The study authors addressed that point somewhat:

    Whether self-reported dietary intake accurately reflects an individual’s true dietary intake has been questioned. Indeed, doubly-labelled water studies typically show that individuals underreport their energy intake, and that the magnitude of the underreporting may be larger in people who are obese.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#242
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All obesity is fundamentally caused by eating too much because fat contains energy that HAS to come from food.

Well, blood sugar contains energy that has to come from somewhere, too, but one would hardly say this means type 2 diabetes is fundamentally caused by eating too much. Shoot, tumors contain energy that has to come from somewhere... Of course, you could rightly reply that there are a lot of complicated things that happen between the food and the problem, and while those diseases require an energy surplus, that neither…

The entire purpose of fat is to store excess energy for future use because over human evolution food supply was unreliable enough for this to create an evolutionary advantage. Getting fat from eating a lot of food is completely predictable.

"The idea that obesity could be avoided or cured with a little bookkeeping and self control"

It absolutely can. Again people just don't want to feel bad about not having enough self control.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference should not be enough to be the difference from a body fat percentage of 15% to 80%.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/09/why-it-wa... You don't know that.

I very much doubt the accuracy of calorie consumption data that article is based on. CICO is so fundamental that I would propose that the current rate of obesity is proof that average net calorie surplus has increased.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is this 'we'? I'm quite certain a large fraction of the HN userbase still believes that people can do independent business without being forced along one direction or another.

What in the world are you talking about

> Instead we should advocate for the real solution, which is to demand the manufacturer drastically increase production -

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absolutely insane what insurance companies will actually pay for - mine was fulling willing to pay $1250 for a simple ultrasound procedure at a hospital facility vs $150 at a specialty clinic. I made the smart decision to have it done at the clinic but it isn't like I'm going to be rewarded for that decision by paying lower premiums.

The insurance companies have huge discounts, even 90% for many procedures. The price list is usually for uninsured people, not what is ever paid by insurance.

In my case - $1250 would have been the contract/discounted price to the insurance company. List price was almost 2x that amount.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes it is. It really is as simple as that, people just don't want to hear it. Historically food was scarce that it was nearly impossible to sustain a calorie surplus long enough to get fat. But some people did, that is why the rich used to be called "fat cats" but now calories are so cheap and delicious and lifestyles are so sedentary that it is very easy for almost anyone to sustain the caloric surplus needed to be…

Self-reported calorie consumption is worthless. But a reader questions the methodology of the researchers: “My main concern is that the calories are almost assuredly self-reported, which is notoriously unreliable.” Another reader agrees: In the 1980s, we weren’t walking around with a computer in our pockets to look up accurate calorie counts for everything that allowed us to store an accurate list of everything we’ve…

Lots of stretching of the imagination here in attempt to fill in the gaps in your bias. I mean you had to dig for this stuff in order to support your stance. Why not let the facts change your conclusions as an unbiased person should?

The fact of the matter is, people weighed less in the 80s then they do today. No amount of stretching can change this quantitative measurement. So something must've changed. What changed?

You can continue to talk about calories in and calories out just like we can blame the overdose problem on people doing too much heroin. Again, while YOU can do that, it's not a very useful position.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/09/why-it-wa... You don't know that.

I very much doubt the accuracy of calorie consumption data that article is based on. CICO is so fundamental that I would propose that the current rate of obesity is proof that average net calorie surplus has increased.

let's keep it to one thread. I'm ending it here.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take Wegovy for obesity, and it completely changes my behaviour. I don't often think about food any more, and when I do, I am quite happy preparing a small amount of healthy food. Not only that, I have more energy so I maintain a far more active lifestyle. Given that I can go for months without those "bad habits", but if I stop taking it they come back, I think they're more than habits. Habits break if you stop doi…

One of the dramatic effects I’ve noticed is I finally know what being truly hungry feels like. I can differentiate between appetite and hunger. I used to think it was odd how people would turn down food when it’s offered to them. Either my hunger cues were so strong, or my lack of self control has made me absolutely unable to restrict my intake long enough to reduce my weight in a meaningful way. This drug is essenti…

The thing is that, at least as far as we know, these drugs don't have any direct effect on the brain. Any effect they have is apparently from adjusting hormone levels and possibly some metabolic effects.

It's also interesting that they were designed to treat diabetes then we also discovered they reduce hunger. My guess is that we may have assumed the cause-effect relationship is more straightforward than it actually is.

I also want to see what happens if we take the people who criticise us for relying on a drug instead of willpower/mental conditioning, then give them a drug that does the opposite of these ones. My guess is they'll overeat and get fat. Much like animals do in animal studies. Ignoring your body constantly telling you to eat is almost impossibly hard over the long term.

Humans have a tendency to assume that we have much more free will than any kind of scientific evidence tends to show.

Re: Diabetes drug Mounjaro was available at $25/month, then increased to $1k/month

#250
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, blood sugar contains energy that has to come from somewhere, too, but one would hardly say this means type 2 diabetes is fundamentally caused by eating too much. Shoot, tumors contain energy that has to come from somewhere... Of course, you could rightly reply that there are a lot of complicated things that happen between the food and the problem, and while those diseases require an energy surplus, that neither…

The entire purpose of fat is to store excess energy for future use because over human evolution food supply was unreliable enough for this to create an evolutionary advantage. Getting fat from eating a lot of food is completely predictable. "The idea that obesity could be avoided or cured with a little bookkeeping and self control" It absolutely can. Again people just don't want to feel bad about not having enough se…

> It absolutely can

It can’t. There are many people who, if they simply scaled down their diet without otherwise modifying their nutrient intake/lifestyle, start having health problems well before they lose weight. Hot flashes, fainting, severe stomach pains, nausea.

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