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It’s time for Alphabet to spin off YouTube?

economist.com

71–80 of 348 posts

Re: It’s time for Alphabet to spin off YouTube?

#71
post #19

It's time for antitrust to hit Meta, Alphabet, and Amazon. At the very least. Amazon: AWS is one of the most valuable businesses ever created. You don't need the retail arm any more, now that it is enshitting itself. Also spin off the media company, comprising Audible and prime video, to make a Disney competitor. Amazon would absolutely be more valuable broken up. Meta: Meta has always run 3 separate products either…

Google side: from maybe a business idea, you could have it work. But from a technical perspective, it would be near impossible without years of engineering effort. Google has a ton of core internal infra that is shared between all the business units at Google. The only reason this is feasible is that the cost of running it is shared between the units. (Googler opinions are my own).

Sounds like the internal infrastructure should also be spun off into it's own company with the other baby Googles as customers!

(sarcasm, in case Poe's Law has you down)

Re: It’s time for Alphabet to spin off YouTube?

#72
post #20
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not combatting the merits of those break-ups, of which I agree, just wanted to point out that WhatsApp is a social media product at this point, because all the relevant social group interactions have moved there from Facebook the website/the app.

What do you mean? Just as anecdote, I don't have whatsapp groups for my fb groups. My whatsapp and fb worlds are entirely disconnected. People in groups from fb often promote Discord (which I don't like: real time chatting with strangers feels odd to me). Facebook is aggressively promoting its own chat for groups, spamming it violently and so I'm forced to unsubscribe/ignore lots of chat groups now. Do people really…

> ust as anecdote, I don't have whatsapp groups for my fb groups

Exactly that, that the personal updates for close friends and family that we used to post on FB are now posted on several dedicated WhatsApp groups. Yes, that means that that former highschool colleague who you'd met once in the last 20 years won't get to see them, but it's still social.

> Facebook is aggressively promoting its own chat for groups,

Could be, but the WhatsApp interface when it comes to group chats is way nicer and more intuitive (especially when it comes to sharing photos).

Re: It’s time for Alphabet to spin off YouTube?

#73

For me, YouTube is the most effective ad sponsored service by far. Users are forced to watch at least 5 seconds of ads before watching any content. This 5 second window is very focused as there is no time to context switch to anything else. Contrast this with Google search - sure there are some ads at the top but these are easy to mentally filter out.

As a consumer, this is 90% of the reason I avoid Youtube as much as possible. EDIT: Also just because people are forced to watch 5 seconds of an ad doesn't mean it's got any measurable positive effect (for the advertiser) whatsoever.

Because youtube ads respond almost instantly to changing the settings, you can normally get a pretty good idea of whether you are getting any return.

Re: It’s time for Alphabet to spin off YouTube?

#74

It's time for antitrust to hit Meta, Alphabet, and Amazon. At the very least. Amazon: AWS is one of the most valuable businesses ever created. You don't need the retail arm any more, now that it is enshitting itself. Also spin off the media company, comprising Audible and prime video, to make a Disney competitor. Amazon would absolutely be more valuable broken up. Meta: Meta has always run 3 separate products either…

> Meta: Meta has always run 3 separate products either way. Spinning off the loser (Facebook), and the non-social networking product (WhatsApp)

You don't think of it as a social networking product, but it is used as such. I consider Discord social media, and WhatsApp is honestly a text only Discord competitor in the grand scheme of things, all the group chats are reminiscent of Discord servers, but for people who dont care about all that Discord has to offer, even if they never heard of Discord. I would absolutely include chat platforms under social media.

Re: It’s time for Alphabet to spin off YouTube?

#75

It's time for antitrust to hit Meta, Alphabet, and Amazon. At the very least. Amazon: AWS is one of the most valuable businesses ever created. You don't need the retail arm any more, now that it is enshitting itself. Also spin off the media company, comprising Audible and prime video, to make a Disney competitor. Amazon would absolutely be more valuable broken up. Meta: Meta has always run 3 separate products either…

Why wasn't Microsoft included in this list? They have more overlap with Amazon and Google then Meta does.

Re: It’s time for Alphabet to spin off YouTube?

#77
post #7

I always assumed YouTube’s technical foundations were significantly subsidized by the mothership, but I have no data to base that on other than looking at the $29bn/year revenue figure and wondering whether that amount of money would be enough to provision the amount of compute, storage and bandwidth that YouTube needs, plus all other expenses (including revenue sharing with uploaders). Yes, $29bn is a lot of money,…

When I worked at Google I definitely noticed that YouTube was great at (ab)using untracked or very cheap resources. They definitely get huge benifits of otherwise idle data centers in sleeping regions. As the regular service traffic died off YouTube would put those idle cores to work transcoding video. It is definitely the case that YouTube gets lots of really cheap compute by being part of Google. But that isn't a b…

YouTube also functions as a network offset, no? Egress from YouTube helps balance ingress from everything, which should lead to cheaper network settlement.

I worked in WANOPS at Microsoft in the 90s, so my understanding of billing is literally decades old.

Re: It’s time for Alphabet to spin off YouTube?

#78

It's time for antitrust to hit Meta, Alphabet, and Amazon. At the very least. Amazon: AWS is one of the most valuable businesses ever created. You don't need the retail arm any more, now that it is enshitting itself. Also spin off the media company, comprising Audible and prime video, to make a Disney competitor. Amazon would absolutely be more valuable broken up. Meta: Meta has always run 3 separate products either…

Globalization is at odds with national level anti-trust. The past has shown that international companies supported by their governments would eat away at the smaller US companies.

Re: It’s time for Alphabet to spin off YouTube?

#79
I was unimpressed by the arguments in the article.

Focus implies that Alphabet cannot avoid being over controlling (why? Any evidence other than idle speculation?) whereas devotion to increasing quarterly shareholder value would somehow be hands off (LOL has the author ever worked for a megacorporation?), or eventually being bought out by a (probably overcontrolling) competitor (Disney? Netflix?) would by some miracle be less overcontrolling than Alphabet currently is. With a side dish of the assumption that Youtube would be better off with less control and oversight. Why is that?

The second argument is also weak. The claim is there are two ways to being ad sales in-house at Youtube (they... aren't already?) one is paying financial market middlemen billions to do a corporate split such that there will only (temporarily?) be in house sales dept, the other option is a cheap, probably money saving, departmental re-org. "We can save money by making a giant pile of cash and lighting it on fire". Naah, not taking the bait, doesn't sound profitable.

The third argument is the author is some kind of insider and our toothless and ineffective unelected regulators hate google more than they hate facebook (solely because he claims it to be the case), so splitting from google would reduce government regulation. I mean, we're just making stuff up at this point, aren't we?

The forth, unnumbered, argument is a restatement of the first argument, that Alphabet is inherently and uncontrollably hypercontrolling so "freeing" Alphabet from hypercontrolling responsibilities WRT youtube would allow better micromanagement of various AI projects. Now wait a minute, the first argument was Alphabet's theoretical control issues are "bad" therefore YT should leave, why is the forth argument that toxic management is somehow good when its applied to new AI divisions? I have a better idea, if the author repeatedly restates that Alphabet management is incompetent and detrimental to everything it touches, why let it ruin AI along with ruining Youtube, why not push to implement better leadership at Alphabet so all the orgs underneath Alphabet would benefit? I'm just saying if the repeated theme of the article is Alphabet is a "rats deserting the sinking ship" argument, well... why not fix the ship so its not sinking instead of coming up with elaborate and expensive evacuation processes? If Alphabet management is toxic therefore YT should leave to avoid it, then a couple paragraphs later claiming Alphabet management is toxic therefore they need to manage AI even harder, doesn't make sense.

Re: It’s time for Alphabet to spin off YouTube?

#80
post #7

I always assumed YouTube’s technical foundations were significantly subsidized by the mothership, but I have no data to base that on other than looking at the $29bn/year revenue figure and wondering whether that amount of money would be enough to provision the amount of compute, storage and bandwidth that YouTube needs, plus all other expenses (including revenue sharing with uploaders). Yes, $29bn is a lot of money,…

When I worked at Google I definitely noticed that YouTube was great at (ab)using untracked or very cheap resources. They definitely get huge benifits of otherwise idle data centers in sleeping regions. As the regular service traffic died off YouTube would put those idle cores to work transcoding video. It is definitely the case that YouTube gets lots of really cheap compute by being part of Google. But that isn't a b…

> It is definitely the case that YouTube gets lots of really cheap compute by being part of Google. But that isn't a bad thing, they are making use of an otherwise wasted resource, effectively lowering the cost for products that need daytime capacity to serve humans.

Google could rent this compute capacity to the masses, allowing for healthier competition.

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