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KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

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Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#341

Post by littlestymaar »

Gigachad wrote: post #123
bandrami wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many different versions of OpenSSL are running on my laptop right now? Who can say? That's the beauty of flatpak: if you sweep the problems of software management under a big enough rug, they go away and never bother you again.

Why would I care? Ok Spotify has an old package with some vulnerabilities in it. But flatpak has it sandboxed so the worst you could do is maybe steal my Spotify session token. That's more a problem for Spotify than it is for me. They will go and fix their package and I will reset my sessions. Meanwhile we have distros lagging behind for years to provide a new package because they can't break all the things depending…

> But flatpak has it sandboxed

With an open sandbox by default for many apps…

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#342

Post by jacooper »

POPOSYS wrote: post #302
jacooper wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are using Ubuntu Pro(free or not) Debian isn't really an alternative. Also I am not sure if Debian is as fast as Canonical in patching CVEs. I like Debian, but after (free)Ubuntu pro, it really became attractive for me as a small server operator, its even better than free RHEL.

Would you please like to explain why it is better? Thanks!

Free kernel livepatching, the whole Ubuntu universe is supported(more than 20 thousand packages), 10 years of support, compliance help.

Its also much easier to install on cloud servers than RHEL.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#343

Post by jacooper »

themodelplumber wrote: post #75
jacooper wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's what Freedesktop does, and why Flatpak heavily relies on XDG variables.

Where is this chart for levels in Freedesktop? I'm only vaguely familiar with the project.

I think its some kind of standards body for the Linux desktop.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#344

Post by 0thgen »

mesebrec wrote: post #15
mastazi wrote: post #9

I'm an Ubuntu user and the first thing I always do in a new system is removing the Ubuntu Store, completely removing snapd, and installing the Flathub Store.

Honest question; why do you still use Ubuntu then? By now, Snap is such a fundamental part of Ubuntu that it begs the question whether Ubuntu is right for you if you want to avoid it. Why not use a derivative or upstream that makes different choices?

like mastazi, I also remove snapd immediately. I get all the benefits of ubuntu and lose absolutely nothing by removing snapd

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#345

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

littlestymaar wrote: post #341
Gigachad wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I care? Ok Spotify has an old package with some vulnerabilities in it. But flatpak has it sandboxed so the worst you could do is maybe steal my Spotify session token. That's more a problem for Spotify than it is for me. They will go and fix their package and I will reset my sessions. Meanwhile we have distros lagging behind for years to provide a new package because they can't break all the things depending…

> But flatpak has it sandboxed With an open sandbox by default for many apps…

You are thinking of Snap probably. Some flatpaks have $HOME wide-open, but Flatpak itself has no mechanism to completely bypass the sandboxing, as evidenced by things like Wireshark being unable to actually capture packets and many IDEs being unable to actually call build tools.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#346

Post by peoplefromibiza »

sph wrote: post #282
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #274

> As we also open the ability for applications to be uploaded in binary form, which is essential for low-friction compatibility with popular language-specific build systems such as Electron/Node, Rust, Go, etc - we also reduce the ability for users to scrutinise the source in the Flathub build system that was used to build their application. ...and their solution is running an antivirus scanner rather than stepping b…

Is NixOS a cult? Every time someone posts about Linux packaging, there's a "you should just use NixOS" comment. Although it provides its own solution to the Linux packaging problem, it's a single solution that comes with a whole load of baggage with it. It is not the panacea its proponents wants us to believe it is.

> Is NixOS a cult?

I think it kinda is, but in a good way.

It's the church of reproducible builds, which is a good cause.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#347

Post by coldblues »

Nasreddin_Hodja wrote: post #334
coldblues wrote: post #297

Flatpak is a solution to package management as Docker is to servers. What's the predominant reason people use Docker? Because it's impossible to get a Python/NodeJS monstrosity working properly without it. On rolling release distributions, you don't ever need Flatpak. Its predominance is found in stable release distributions like Ubuntu and Fedora. Because they stall packages and their dependencies, it'll always be a…

> On rolling release distributions, you don't ever need Flatpak. What if I need older version of some software? Or what if I need multiple versions of the same software at once?

I'd say that Nix has solved this problem way better than Flatpak.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#348

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

_cenw wrote: post #305
bogwog wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched to Fedora Kinoite (KDE spin of Silverblue) to force me to go all in on Flatpaks, and now I love them. They make so much sense and work so well. I feel like the people who dislike them either never actually used them, or they’re just the type of person who hates change and will never be happy with new things.

Do you use an IDE, and if so, which? Last I checked Flathub shipped with VSCode and IntelliJ, despite both having major broken parts. The VSCode workaround back when I tried Silverblue was to run sshd inside toolbox and remote Flatpak VSCode into it. It was definitely not a frictionless experience. And IntelliJ having the terminal and debugging broken removes most of the useful parts of the IDE for me.

Yeah, Flatpak has some kind of hangup about the idea that some tools need actually real full access to the system. Wireshark is similarly useless because you can't actually capture packets with it.

It is really strange that both this and "it's totally ok for packages to set their own security defaults" are true in Flatpak land.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#349

Post by majewsky »

SSLy wrote: post #307
Athas wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression is that Arch is not technically unusual among distributions, but is simply well-polished, documented, and very active (and has an easy way to install unvetted community packages). If this impression is correct, you still run the risk of unnoticed outdated software if the amount of volunteers drop, or a particularly critical one no longer has the time. Which part of Arch's design prevents the issue descr…

>Which part of Arch's design prevents the issue described in the grandparent post? As a former long-time Arch user, you're correct. It's "just" a distro not unlike the biggest one. The reason Arch repos are fairly well updated and big is the relatively easy to understand PKGBUILD format and the tooling around it, which lessens friction on package management.

The impact of having frictionless package building cannot be understated. I'm publishing Arch Linux packages for all my applications because it takes just a few minutes to write up a PKGBUILD. Then one time, I tried providing a Debian package as well, but I gave up after several hours of trying to get through all the bureaucracy of the tooling.

Re: KDE and GNOME seeks $100k to turn Flathub into a Store for the Linux desktop

#350

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

coldblues wrote: post #347
Nasreddin_Hodja wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On rolling release distributions, you don't ever need Flatpak. What if I need older version of some software? Or what if I need multiple versions of the same software at once?

I'd say that Nix has solved this problem way better than Flatpak.

Call me when I don't have to learn a new language to use it effectively.
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